I posted:

>> I've decided it's time to jump into Linux with both feet.

Stefan Patric <tootek2@yahoo.com> wrote:

>That's a mistake. Should have done some reading first.

Actually, I bought, and completely read, two books on Linux:

Linux All-in-One Desk Reference for Dummies
Ubuntu for Non-Geeks 2nd Edition

You can imagine that such books would only barely scratch the surface
of Linux's file system. (Although it was suprising how often they
advised using command line utilities to do things, especially the
non-geeks book.)

>> I got a new computer, because I wanted a dual-core processor.
>
>Okay. But specs would help with diagnosing problems.

Gigabyte using NForce 570Sli chipset, AMD processor
MSI NX8400GS graphics card

I'm going to pull a card out of my old system as the main graphics
card; I've gotten to where I like to use at least two monitors.

>> I installed XP on a new hard drive, then Vista in dual-boot
>> configuration. What a piece of crap! Boom! Reinstall XP.
>
>You're learning.
>
>> Now Linux. Now of my burnt cds worked in my dvdrom, and the one that
>> started to install (it might have been Debian) fragged my Windows. Boom!
>> Reinstall XP.
>
>Probably did it wrong. Default installs usually wipe the hard drive.
>You'll need to do a "custom" install.

(Should've read "None of" not "Now of".) There was several different
options, and I'm sure I used one that said "free space" as opposed to
"entire drive".

>> I can select which hard drive to boot from, so install PCLinuxOS on a
>> second hard drive, with the Windows disk disconnected. I used the
>> option to install three partitions. While I understand why I want a
>> separate swap partiton, I'm still a little confused about these other
>> ones. But I want all documents and downloads separate from the systems.
>> But I don't know what /, /var, and /home are.

<snip stuff on partitoning>
Thanks. I've been trying to get info on this on several other Linux
newsgroups for weeks now, but most of my responses have been "you can
do that or you can do this other thing that or you can do this other
thing that is exactly opposite of what you want," without even coming
close to answering my question.

>> Then install Debian, default multi-partition set-up. The gui won't load
>> and I'm stuck at the command prompt.
>
>For now, until you know more, just stick with one distro.

I've installed Ubuntu and my parents' computers, and I'm leaning
towards that as my main choice, with Debian as a second to learn the
more hard core geek stuff.

>My guess on no GUI is that the Debian installer configured your graphics
>settings incorrectly, and the X-server -- that's Linux's graphics server
>-- can't load and work with those settings, and quits, falling back to
>the terminal. The graphics configuration file is called xorg.conf and is
>normally in /etc/X11. Type 'man xorg.conf' in a terminal for more info.
>
>> Any help on what went wrong and how to get the gui up and running? PCLOS
>> still runs fine, but I've got five seconds to choose it over Debian.
>> For now, I'd like PCLOS to be default. I've got a big chunk of space,
>> so I think I'm going to try Fedora and Ubuntu. I put Ubuntu on my
>> parents computers, (separate hard drive, and I have to go through the
>> bios to boot to it) and I think I prefer it's interface to PCLos.
>>
>> PCLos is kde, and Ubuntu is gnome?
>
>Yes. However, Kubuntu uses KDE and Xubuntu uses XFCE.

I'm wondering if it's Gnome that I prefer over KDE. PCLOS seems more
like WindowsXP default interface, and the first thing I do after
installing XP is to switch to a 9x style.

>Also, I suggest you go to a book store and buy RUNNING LINUX, 5th Edition
>(O'Reilly, pub), read it cover to cover a couple times, then really study
>it. After doing that, you should have a better understanding of Linux
>and how it works.

The two books I bought were a good starting place, but I suppose I
need something a little more geek. Amazon has the 2005 edition of
this book, but the most prominent review says its outdated.

Anybody got any other suggestions about good books?

I wrote:

>> Now Linux. Now of my burnt cds worked in my dvdrom, and the one that
>> started to install (it might have been Debian) fragged my Windows. Boom!
>> Reinstall XP.

ray <ray@zianet.com> wrote:

>If you burned them as iso disk images, there should have been no problem.
>I've never seen a Linux install damage an installed MS setup unless it
>was told to. I suspect you did not fully understand what you told it to
>do - sometimes the directions are a little cryptic.

Like I said, it started to install, but failed. I'm thinking maybe it
was loading the boot loader onto the mbr or Windows partition or
whatever when it failed.

>> I can select which hard drive to boot from,

Actually, the boot options are what media: hard drive, cdrom, floppy,
usb device. I can only use this menu to boot from the first hard
drive. At least I think; there's a plus next to hard drive, but I
can't seem to open any submenu.

>>so install PCLinuxOS on a
>> second hard drive, with the Windows disk disconnected. I used the
>> option to install three partitions. While I understand why I want a
>> separate swap partiton, I'm still a little confused about these other
>> ones. But I want all documents and downloads separate from the systems.
>> But I don't know what /, /var, and /home are.
>
>Why? But if you want to, then you simply create another partition and
>mount if for your downloads and documents. / is the ultimate top level
>directory - with *nix everything on the computer is a file somewhere
>within that hierarchy. /home is where the user accounts are normally
>placed. /var usually has a bunch of system stuff (logs, etc.) in it.
>Normally on a system I install for evaluation, I use a swap and / -
>that's all; so the entire system is installed under /.

The guided installation of Ubuntu is with /, /swap, and /home. But
with custom, I could set up separate parts for /var, and probably
/usr, but I didn't know if I wanted to, or how much space I wanted in
each.

Later, if something I installed made the system unusable, I could wipe
the system partition and reinstall without worrying about damaging my
files. Or, if I'm trying out 20 different distros simultaneously,
when I decide one's not for me, i can zap only it's system partitions.

Whatever the case, I need to know what I'm doing.

>> Then install Debian, default multi-partition set-up. The gui won't load
>> and I'm stuck at the command prompt.
>
>Did you install a GUI? It is possible to install Debian without one.

I don't remember if I was given the option, but I'm sure I would have
said I wanted a gui. Also, the monitor kind of flickered, so I'm
guessing it was trying to load a gui. Plus, there was some kind of
error message that seemed to amount to "gui failed".

>> Any help on what went wrong and how to get the gui up and running? PCLOS
>> still runs fine, but I've got five seconds to choose it over Debian.
>> For now, I'd like PCLOS to be default. I've got a big chunk of space,
>> so I think I'm going to try Fedora and Ubuntu. I put Ubuntu on my
>> parents computers, (separate hard drive, and I have to go through the
>> bios to boot to it) and I think I prefer it's interface to PCLos.
>>
>> PCLos is kde, and Ubuntu is gnome?
>
>Except that there is a PCLOS Gnome edition and Kubuntu which is Ubuntu
>with KDE replacing Gnome. It's sometimes better to install the 'default'
>system and then add the other desktops you want.

I knew about Kubuntu and Xubuntu. Matter of fact, I was going to
download a Kubuntu iso and try it separately, but I glanced over some
of the online info on saw that there wasn't any point in doing that.

Although, I'm not really sure how to switch. I guess that
conversation belongs more in the Ubuntu and PCL groups.

(I hope everyone gets my abbreviations for PCLinuxOS. There's just
too many caps in that name.)

On Mar 21, 11:05 pm, Todd <nob...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> I wrote:
> >> Now Linux. Now of my burnt cds worked in my dvdrom, and the one that
> >> started to install (it might have been Debian) fragged my Windows. Boom!
> >> Reinstall XP.
> ray <r...@zianet.com> wrote:
> >If you burned them as iso disk images, there should have been no problem.
> >I've never seen a Linux install damage an installed MS setup unless it
> >was told to. I suspect you did not fully understand what you told it to
> >do - sometimes the directions are a little cryptic.
>
> Like I said, it started to install, but failed. I'm thinking maybe it
> was loading the boot loader onto the mbr or Windows partition or
> whatever when it failed.

There is severel differents layouts that works with grub boot loader.

First, you can use MS bootloader in MBR, but I have not tried that
one.

I usally have a boot partition (/boot) that Grub MBR boots into.

Then I let each other Linux distribution (or other os:es) have it's
own boot info in its own / (root) partition. I let the Grub that MBR
boots into select to boot its Linux or boot into the other / (root)
disks. It usally is easier to let each distribution handle it's own
boot menues.
Then in each distributions Grub meny, I have a line the starts the
main Grub boot menu. Then I can in an easy way select, upgrade etc
each OS.

But this is advanced

> >> I can select which hard drive to boot from,
>
> Actually, the boot options are what media: hard drive, cdrom, floppy,
> usb device. I can only use this menu to boot from the first hard
> drive. At least I think; there's a plus next to hard drive, but I
> can't seem to open any submenu.

Hmmm, which boot meny do you talk about, Grub or BIOS?

> >>so install PCLinuxOS on a
> >> second hard drive, with the Windows disk disconnected. I used the
> >> option to install three partitions. While I understand why I want a
> >> separate swap partiton, I'm still a little confused about these other
> >> ones. But I want all documents and downloads separate from the systems.
> >> But I don't know what /, /var, and /home are.
<removed>
>
> The guided installation of Ubuntu is with /, /swap, and /home. But
> with custom, I could set up separate parts for /var, and probably
> /usr, but I didn't know if I wanted to, or how much space I wanted in
> each.
>
> Later, if something I installed made the system unusable, I could wipe
> the system partition and reinstall without worrying about damaging my
> files. Or, if I'm trying out 20 different distros simultaneously,
> when I decide one's not for me, i can zap only it's system partitions.
>
> Whatever the case, I need to know what I'm doing.

Then, what I understand you want is only three partitions. One root
partition (/), one home partition (/home is where your user data is)
and one swap partition. Leave some space for other OS:er after those
partitions.

If you only going to use Linux distributions, I really recommend you
to have a look at LVM. It makes it really easy to add and remove
partitions.

> >> Then install Debian, default multi-partition set-up. The gui won't load
> >> and I'm stuck at the command prompt.
>
> >Did you install a GUI? It is possible to install Debian without one.
>
> I don't remember if I was given the option, but I'm sure I would have
> said I wanted a gui. Also, the monitor kind of flickered, so I'm
> guessing it was trying to load a gui. Plus, there was some kind of
> error message that seemed to amount to "gui failed".

Last options gives you options like workstation, printer servers etc.

Then you prob. has some problem with your settings for X11-server.
You can always start it from a command line with startx. Then you can
see what errors there are. Also have a look in /var/log/Xorg.*.log
file. It should explain what problems you have.

To reconfigure you can edit /var/X11/xorg.conf, or run 'sudo dpkg-
reconfigure -plow xserver-xorg' to try some other settings.

> I knew about Kubuntu and Xubuntu. Matter of fact, I was going to
> download a Kubuntu iso and try it separately, but I glanced over some
> of the online info on saw that there wasn't any point in doing that.
>
> Although, I'm not really sure how to switch. I guess that
> conversation belongs more in the Ubuntu and PCL groups.

In Debian or Ubuntu:

sudo aptitude install kde

Select kde when boot. The different first installation CD:s in Debian
or the distributions Kubuntu or Xubuntu is just different selections
of which packages to install from the beginning. You do have Gnome,
KDE and Xfce in both Debian and Ubuntu package repositories.

--
Good luck

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:46:52 -0700, Todd wrote:

> I posted:
>
>>> I've decided it's time to jump into Linux with both feet.
>
> Stefan Patric <tootek2@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>That's a mistake. Should have done some reading first.
>
> Actually, I bought, and completely read, two books on Linux:
>
> Linux All-in-One Desk Reference for Dummies Ubuntu for Non-Geeks 2nd
> Edition

I read (studied, really) two myself: RUNNING LINUX, 3rd Edition and
LEARNING DEBIAN GNU/LINUX; and spent about 6 months lurking the Usenet
Linux groups and reading the HOWTOs on The Linux Documentation Project
site (http://www.tldp.org/) before I attempted my first install. By that
time I had a fairly good understanding of Linux. That was about 8 or 9
years ago. Good preparation always pays off. Plus, I had the added
advantage of migrating from AmigaOS instead DOS/Windows.

> You can imagine that such books would only barely scratch the surface of
> Linux's file system. (Although it was suprising how often they advised
> using command line utilities to do things, especially the non-geeks
> book.)

It's like a car: Sometimes the best way to understand how the thing works
is to get under the hood and get your hands dirty.

>>> I got a new computer, because I wanted a dual-core processor.
>>
>>Okay. But specs would help with diagnosing problems.
>
> Gigabyte using NForce 570Sli chipset, AMD processor MSI NX8400GS
> graphics card
>
> I'm going to pull a card out of my old system as the main graphics card;
> I've gotten to where I like to use at least two monitors.

Don't add problems with a dual graphics card set up until you get the
single card one working correctly.

>>> Now Linux. Now of my burnt cds worked in my dvdrom, and the one that
>>> started to install (it might have been Debian) fragged my Windows.
>>> Boom!
>>> Reinstall XP.
>>
>>Probably did it wrong. Default installs usually wipe the hard drive.
>>You'll need to do a "custom" install.
>
> (Should've read "None of" not "Now of".) There was several different
> options, and I'm sure I used one that said "free space" as opposed to
> "entire drive".

Did you checksum the downloaded ISOs before burning the DVDs as well as
doing the same to the DVDs after burning? You could have a bad download
or bad burn, particularly if you used Windows' Internet Explorer browser
to do the download. It fucks up ISO files by padding the file. Use
another browser like Opera or Firefox or a true ftp client. And burn
your DVDs at well less than max or the default burn speed.

> [snip]

>>Also, I suggest you go to a book store and buy RUNNING LINUX, 5th
>>Edition (O'Reilly, pub), read it cover to cover a couple times, then
>>really study it. After doing that, you should have a better
>>understanding of Linux and how it works.
>
> The two books I bought were a good starting place, but I suppose I need
> something a little more geek. Amazon has the 2005 edition of this book,
> but the most prominent review says its outdated.

They are always out of date. By the time a book is written and
published, a year or two has pasted, a couple of lifetimes as far as
Linux is concerned. However, if the book is non-distro specific and
fairly generalized, it shouldn't be a problem. The way Linux really
works doesn't change that much. As an example, I still use my 9 year old
copy of RUNNING LINUX as a reference, and it's only just now beginning to
become dated, but it's still about 75% to 80% applicable.

Stef

Me earlier:

>> >> I can select which hard drive to boot from,

Me more recent:

>> Actually, the boot options are what media: hard drive, cdrom, floppy,
>> usb device. I can only use this menu to boot from the first hard
>> drive. At least I think; there's a plus next to hard drive, but I
>> can't seem to open any submenu.

AJackson <anders.jackson@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hmmm, which boot meny do you talk about, Grub or BIOS?

Sorry. The bios, more or less. When the system starts up, at the
point where I can press delete to enter the bios, I can also press
<F12> to enter a boot menu.

>Then, what I understand you want is only three partitions. One root
>partition (/), one home partition (/home is where your user data is)
>and one swap partition. Leave some space for other OS:er after those
>partitions.

That seems to be the general recommendation. I'm trying several
distros, so I'll probably mix it up a little with the other
recommendations.

>If you only going to use Linux distributions, I really recommend you
>to have a look at LVM. It makes it really easy to add and remove
>partitions.

I looked LVM up on Wikipedia. Gahhh! I think I'll leave that alone
for now.

>> >> Then install Debian, default multi-partition set-up. The gui won't load
>> >> and I'm stuck at the command prompt.
>>
>> >Did you install a GUI? It is possible to install Debian without one.
>>
>> I don't remember if I was given the option, but I'm sure I would have
>> said I wanted a gui. Also, the monitor kind of flickered, so I'm
>> guessing it was trying to load a gui. Plus, there was some kind of
>> error message that seemed to amount to "gui failed".
>
>Last options gives you options like workstation, printer servers etc.
>
>Then you prob. has some problem with your settings for X11-server.
>You can always start it from a command line with startx. Then you can
>see what errors there are. Also have a look in /var/log/Xorg.*.log
>file. It should explain what problems you have.
>
>To reconfigure you can edit /var/X11/xorg.conf, or run 'sudo dpkg-
>reconfigure -plow xserver-xorg' to try some other settings.

I did have an error message, but I didn't know what to type to try to
fix it.

>> I knew about Kubuntu and Xubuntu. Matter of fact, I was going to
>> download a Kubuntu iso and try it separately, but I glanced over some
>> of the online info on saw that there wasn't any point in doing that.
>>
>> Although, I'm not really sure how to switch. I guess that
>> conversation belongs more in the Ubuntu and PCL groups.
>
>In Debian or Ubuntu:
>
>sudo aptitude install kde
>
>Select kde when boot. The different first installation CD:s in Debian
>or the distributions Kubuntu or Xubuntu is just different selections
>of which packages to install from the beginning. You do have Gnome,
>KDE and Xfce in both Debian and Ubuntu package repositories.

See, I was looking for kde in the add/remove programs thing. Hmm.
I'll just stick with the default for now. As I'm trying more distros,
I'll figure out what's part of the gui and what's part of the distro.
Speaking of which, any good distros that use xfce as default? Any
other common guis that I should consider?

One other thing. If I install a game like Quake or Unreal
(particularly the later generations, where the maps take up gobs of
space), can I install in one location and then run it from whatever
distro I happen to decide to boot up in that day?

I wrote:
>
>> I'm going to pull a card out of my old system as the main graphics card;
>> I've gotten to where I like to use at least two monitors.
>
Stefan Patric <tootek2@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Don't add problems with a dual graphics card set up until you get the
>single card one working correctly.

Well, I'm dual booting Windows and Linux, and I really want two or
more monitors in Windows.

>Did you checksum the downloaded ISOs before burning the DVDs as well as
>doing the same to the DVDs after burning? You could have a bad download
>or bad burn, particularly if you used Windows' Internet Explorer browser
>to do the download. It fucks up ISO files by padding the file. Use
>another browser like Opera or Firefox or a true ftp client. And burn
>your DVDs at well less than max or the default burn speed.

I don't run Exploder. I've been using Firefox for quite a while now.
I like the tab browsing, and hate IE7's new look. And Vista and the
new Office both use it.

I don't know what to use to checksum files. I know that's what the
md5 is for, but I don't know what programs to use. Is there a Firefox
extension that can do that?

Todd writes:
> I don't know what to use to checksum files. I know that's what the md5
> is for, but I don't know what programs to use.

man md5sum
--
John Hasler

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:51:01 -0700, Todd wrote:

> I wrote:
>>
>>> I'm going to pull a card out of my old system as the main graphics
>>> card; I've gotten to where I like to use at least two monitors.
>>
> Stefan Patric <tootek2@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Don't add problems with a dual graphics card set up until you get the
>>single card one working correctly.
>
> Well, I'm dual booting Windows and Linux, and I really want two or more
> monitors in Windows.

I'm not saying to don't use two graphic cards, I'm advising that you get
Linux working correctly to your liking, THEN add and configure the second
card. It's a lot easier doing it that way. And safer.

>>Did you checksum the downloaded ISOs before burning the DVDs as well as
>>doing the same to the DVDs after burning? You could have a bad download
>>or bad burn, particularly if you used Windows' Internet Explorer browser
>>to do the download. It fucks up ISO files by padding the file. Use
>>another browser like Opera or Firefox or a true ftp client. And burn
>>your DVDs at well less than max or the default burn speed.
>
> I don't run Exploder. I've been using Firefox for quite a while now. I
> like the tab browsing, and hate IE7's new look. And Vista and the new
> Office both use it.
>
> I don't know what to use to checksum files. I know that's what the md5
> is for, but I don't know what programs to use. Is there a Firefox
> extension that can do that?

Linux uses two checksummers: md5sum and sha1sum. I'm pretty sure they
have versions for Windows as well as most other OSes. You have to use
the appropriate one depending on which checksum is used. They don't
generate the same sum. FWIW, some CD or DVD burner utilities have the
option to run a sum after the burn. Very convenient.

Stef

On Mar 22, 10:44 pm, Todd <nob...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> Me earlier:
>
> >> >> I can select which hard drive to boot from,
>
> Me more recent:
>
> >> Actually, the boot options are what media: hard drive, cdrom, floppy,
> >> usb device. I can only use this menu to boot from the first hard
> >> drive. At least I think; there's a plus next to hard drive, but I
> >> can't seem to open any submenu.
> AJackson <anders.jack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Hmmm, which boot meny do you talk about, Grub or BIOS?
>
> Sorry. The bios, more or less. When the system starts up, at the
> point where I can press delete to enter the bios, I can also press
> <F12> to enter a boot menu.

I (we?) was talking about MBR boot menu (generated by Grub).
That is after BIOS but before the actually OS starts.

There is no way (yes, it is. But not for a real geek) to change the
BIOS and add your own menus.

> >Then, what I understand you want is only three partitions. One root
> >partition (/), one home partition (/home is where your user data is)
> >and one swap partition. Leave some space for other OS:er after those
> >partitions.
>
> That seems to be the general recommendation. I'm trying several
> distros, so I'll probably mix it up a little with the other
> recommendations.

If you hibernate your computer, you need different swap areas for each
Linux distribution. If not, you can use one for each Linux
distribution.
You need one root partition for each OS (including Linux
distributions, do not try to share them)
You anly need one /home partition for the Linux/Unix distributions
(depending on file system used, Linux only one)

Go from there...

> >If you only going to use Linux distributions, I really recommend you
> >to have a look at LVM. It makes it really easy to add and remove
> >partitions.
>
> I looked LVM up on Wikipedia. Gahhh! I think I'll leave that alone
> for now.

It isn't hard at all. And it makes it REALLY easy to add, remove and
resize you partitions.
But I can understand that you go for "hard" partitions from start.
But you should have a look, espacially if you going to test different
distributions and/or virtuall machines.

> >> >> Then install Debian, default multi-partition set-up. The gui won't load
> >> >> and I'm stuck at the command prompt.
>
> >> >Did you install a GUI? It is possible to install Debian without one.
>
> >> I don't remember if I was given the option, but I'm sure I would have
> >> said I wanted a gui. Also, the monitor kind of flickered, so I'm
> >> guessing it was trying to load a gui. Plus, there was some kind of
> >> error message that seemed to amount to "gui failed".
>
> >Last options gives you options like workstation, printer servers etc.
>
> >Then you prob. has some problem with your settings for X11-server.
> >You can always start it from a command line with startx. Then you can
> >see what errors there are. Also have a look in /var/log/Xorg.*.log
> >file. It should explain what problems you have.
>
> >To reconfigure you can edit /var/X11/xorg.conf, or run 'sudo dpkg-
> >reconfigure -plow xserver-xorg' to try some other settings.
>
> I did have an error message, but I didn't know what to type to try to
> fix it.

You can allways try 'dpkg-reconfigure -plow xserver-xorg' in debian
based distributions to try to change X settings.
It's far more easier than to change /etc/X11/xorg.conf (but you should
still have a look at it, you may need to change that file if you want
to use two screens on you machine (you prob. only need one graphical
card for that setup).

To test a settings, try 'startx' to see if it starts. If it does,
exit it with Ctrl-Backspace (it kills X-server in a non friendly way,
do not use this unless there is no other way or you know what you do
or you WILL lose data). If it doesn't start, try to make some other
changes to your X settings (like before).

When it works, start you X servert controller daemon with: 'sudo
invoke-rc.d gdm start'
Then you will get a graphical login window, and you are home.

To tell the error messages makes it MUCH easier to help you fix your
problems. Make yourself accustom with the log files. Better to know
how they should look when it works, than to try to make something out
of it after you have problems. But now you have problems already

> >Select kde when boot. The different first installation CD:s in Debian
> >or the distributions Kubuntu or Xubuntu is just different selections
> >of which packages to install from the beginning. You do have Gnome,
> >KDE and Xfce in both Debian and Ubuntu package repositories.
>
> See, I was looking for kde in the add/remove programs thing. Hmm.
> I'll just stick with the default for now. As I'm trying more distros,
> I'll figure out what's part of the gui and what's part of the distro.
> Speaking of which, any good distros that use xfce as default? Any
> other common guis that I should consider?

Hrm... Read what I just wrote to you in my latest answer to you, just
before your question...
Just select "right" first Debian CD and you have different
desktops :-)

> One other thing. If I install a game like Quake or Unreal
> (particularly the later generations, where the maps take up gobs of
> space), can I install in one location and then run it from whatever
> distro I happen to decide to boot up in that day?

You could try, and it should work. But then I wouldn't do that. But
it's your call, isn't it ;-)
--
Good luck.