In responce to Mumia W. 's post. I thought everyone should know:

> On 07/18/2007 04:23 PM, Ronnie wrote:
>> On 18 Jul 2007 22:45:51 +0200, msm <msm@domain.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> But reinstalling just for an extra desktop environment is also
>>> overkill.
>> Oh. Can I run KDE 'and' Gnome, then? And somehow select them or
>> switch between them. Gosh, I hadn't realised that.
>>
>> I'm on dial up. I'll have to find out, if I've understood this idea
>> correctly, whether I can get the KDE stuff of the KDE install CD, or
>> whether the only way is over a 19200 phone line. More reading!
>>
>> Thanks for the hint.
>>
>
> You can install KDE through aptitude or synaptic or apt-get.
>
> There's no need to use the CD's any more. If you set up your
> /etc/apt/sources.list properly, you can let aptitude install KDE by
> downloading it from a Debian software repository.
>
> Refer to this page:
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/
>
> Much information you'll need while using Debian is there.
>
> Also install some documentation packages: doc-debian and
> debian-reference-en:
>
> aptitude install doc-debian debian-reference-en
>
> The files should show up in /usr/share/doc/debian and
> /usr/share/doc/Debian/reference/.
>
> You've probably already seen the Debian Installation Guide which is on
> the CD-ROM.
>
> After you have an installation of Debian going, it's very unlikely
> you'll ever need the Debian installation disks ever again. This is not
> Windows. You don't have to put the CD in the drive whenever you change
> printer drivers, and there is no product activation :-)

he said he's on dial up did he not? isnt the KDE package ruther large? why
not edit the sources.list to read from a cd then pop the cd in while the
system is up and running and still use apt-get to get the desired packages
from the cd. assuming he has the kde install cd in hand i would think that
would be faster than trying to download the package via dial up
connection, unless of course i am wrong about the size of the package for
the KDE desktop environment.

--
Chris

>>I'm not sure what you mean by "it asks you to log in", are you using GDM
>>as a desktop manager or logging in from a terminal prompt? Did you end up
>>in Gnome?
>
> Yes, Gnome comes up with a login window - it's the first interaction
> opportunity I get with the machine once I select Debian 4 from my Grub
> list
>

That sounds like the GDM (gnome desktop manager) from it you choose the
desktop environment or window manager you want for the session and login.
(Note: that is not the only way it could be done) In your case, it
probably only has the choice of Gnome since you haven't installed anything
else yet.

>
>>How (method) did you try to mount those other partitions?
>
> Gnome has a 'places' menu which you can open - it lists all the discs and
> partitions, and if you rightclick on them it lets you choose mount. Or
> you can doubleclick. I get a failure message with an option for more
> detail which offers:
>
> libhal-storage.c 1401 : info: called libhal_free_dbus_error but dbuserror
> was not set.
> process 2716: applications must not close shared connections - see
> dbus_connection_close() docs. this is a bug in the application. error:
> device /dev/hdb2 is not removable error: could not execute pmount
>

And, if you think about it, it's telling you the truth. Hdb2 is not
removeable media, is it?

If you were to make a mount point in /mnt (for example /hdb2) and, as
root, enter "mount /dev/hdb2 /mnt/hdb2" in a terminal, then you would
be able to see the contents of hdb2 at /mnt/hdb2.


>
>> What does your /etc/fstab file look like?
>
> (it exceeds wrap, I think):
> # <file system> <mount point> <type> <options> <dump> <pass>
> proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
> /dev/hdb4 / ext2 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
> /dev/hdb3 none swap sw 0 0 /dev/hdc
> /media/cdrom0 udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0 0 /dev/fd0
> /media/floppy0 auto rw,user,noauto 0 0
>

Yup, looks like a default install to hdb4 with swap on hdb3.

This would be a good time to open a terminal and type "man fstab"
without the quotes. After that you will want to "man mount". Then you can
RTFM to your heart's content.:-)


> (on a subsequent reboot fsck fixed some errors on hdb4 caused when I
> could not find a way to logout and shutdown - after hitting the problem,
> though.

In a default install Debian can only be shutdown by root (the system
admin). If you think about it, it makes sense. The system admin does not
want the server shut down by a regular user.

There usually isn't any compelling reason to shut a Debian system down. In
fact many people like to point out their "uptime", how long they've gone
without a reboot.

If you open a terminal and type:

$su
$Password:
#shutdown -h now

Then your system will do an orderly shutdown and halt.


> Same mount failures continue to occur.)

Just to be correct, they weren't failures, it behaved as was to be
expected, you just aren't accustomed to it.


Mumia W gave you some references, here are a couple more and there
are lots more out there on the net.
http://www.aboutdebian.com/
http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Main_Page

Rodney

[Kees T]>>How about just adding the partitions you want to access?
[Ronnie]> That straightforward?
>

Yes, it is that straightforward, once you know how. I remember it was
very confusing for me when I started, you know the correct approach and
I expect you will read up on it. It definitely ain't like winders. ;-)

I'm guessing that you're expecting Debian to behave like one of those Live
CD you've used until now. You never mentioned which ones. Some of them do
things like add all your other partitions to fstab and make them available
for the user automagically. Debian doesn't do that, the system admin (in
this case you) has to setup the Debian system the way the system admin
wants it to be and may not want users to be able to access all the
partitions on a system.


[Kees T]>>On the other hand -as a beginner- you might want to learn by
playing and
>>experimenting with your system, screwing things up and reinstalling a
>>few times anyway. :-)
[Ronnie]> Now that's true, but this is a production machine which is why
I'm on
> hdb. So I need to keep my enthusiasm on a leash.
>

My advice is what others have already stated, don't re-install your
working system, just add KDE to the install.

It occurred to me that I'd better explain and mention that the $ and # are
parts of the prompt not part of the command. The $ is user prompt, after
you have entered su and entered the correct password, the prompt will
change to #, indicating that you are now working as root (super user). Be
sure to close the terminal window when done, you don't want a root
terminal open except when you need to do some admin task, you especially
don't want it open if someone compromises your username, because then they
could do anything root can do.

> If you open a
terminal and type:
>
> $su
> $Password:
> #shutdown -h now
>
> Then your system will do an orderly shutdown and halt.

Someone will probably jump in here with sudo stuff, I suggest you leave
that until you become comfortable with how things work and then we can
discuss the security implications and why some live distros choose to
include the user in sudo. I'd guess you already have enough on your plate
at the moment.

I demand that Rodney may or may not have written...

[snip]
> If you open a terminal and type:

> $su
> $Password:
> #shutdown -h now

I'd use
$ su - -c 'shutdown -h now'

or arrange for the power button to do that (via ACPI), ideally starting with
an orderly logout from any active desktop environment.

[snip]
--
| Darren Salt | linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| + Buy local produce. Try to walk or cycle. TRANSPORT CAUSES GLOBAL WARMING.

ASCII stupid question... get a stupid ANSI!

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:47:16 +0100, Darren Salt wrote:

> I demand that Rodney may or may not have written...
>
> [snip]
>> If you open a terminal and type:
>
>> $su
>> $Password:
>> #shutdown -h now
>
> I'd use
> $ su - -c 'shutdown -h now'
>
> or arrange for the power button to do that (via ACPI), ideally starting
> with an orderly logout from any active desktop environment.
>
> [snip]


Yes, of course Darren. It would also be possible to allow a user or users
to shutdown. However, Ronnie is very new to this and has lots of stuff to
learn at the present time. It would be easiest for him if you give a
detailed step-by-step (ideally with explanation of the steps) of how to
accomplish this on a default install. Please don't just tell him to RTFM.
He's working hard to learn but only has experience with live CD's that
have been set up by others. I hesitate to add to his stress by throwing a
bunch of choices or personal preferences at him all at one time. YMMV.

Rodney

On 2007-07-18, Mumia W. <paduille.4061.mumia.w+nospam@earthlink.net> rambled on thusly:

> On 07/18/2007 04:23 PM, Ronnie wrote:

>> I'm on dial up. I'll have to find out, if I've understood this idea
>> correctly, whether I can get the KDE stuff of the KDE install CD, or
>> whether the only way is over a 19200 phone line. More reading!

> You can install KDE through aptitude or synaptic or apt-get.

> There's no need to use the CD's any more. If you set up your
> /etc/apt/sources.list properly, you can let aptitude install KDE by
> downloading it from a Debian software repository.

So you ignored the bit about Ronnie not wanting to download everything over
his 19.2k phone line, eh?

--
Michael Fierro (aka Biffster) biffster@NOSPAM-REALLYgmail.com
http://apt-get.us Y!: miguelito_fierro AIM: mfierro1
-==-
"Because if you knew, you'd be teaching me. And for a student
to teach a teacher is presumptuous and rude."
- Professor Turpentine, "Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory"

On 2007-07-18, Ronnie <me@privacy.net> rambled on thusly:

> Oh. Can I run KDE 'and' Gnome, then? And somehow select them or
> switch between them. Gosh, I hadn't realised that.

Yeah. KDE and Gnome are not seperate operating systems, they are only
different desktop environments. You can install all three major desktop
environments (KDE, Gnome and XFCE) on the same computer, and then pick
which session you want to run when you log in. The "Session" menu on the
login screen will list all desktop environments and window managers, and
you can choose which to run.

I have the big three, plus Windowmaker and fluxbox installed on my main
Ubuntu workstation. XFCE is my default, and it is what I use 90% of the
time. 9% of the time, I use Windowmaker. And every now and then, I get
goofy and run either KDE or fluxbox. I'm not a Gnome kinda guy, but I am
not offended enough by it to uninstall it.

--
Michael Fierro (aka Biffster) biffster@NOSPAM-REALLYgmail.com
http://apt-get.us Y!: miguelito_fierro AIM: mfierro1
-==-
I selected E5 ... but I didn't hear "Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs"!

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:48:35 -0500, Biffster wrote:

> On 2007-07-18, Ronnie <me@privacy.net> rambled on thusly:
>
>> Oh. Can I run KDE 'and' Gnome, then? And somehow select them or switch
>> between them. Gosh, I hadn't realised that.
>
> Yeah. KDE and Gnome are not seperate operating systems, they are only
> different desktop environments. You can install all three major desktop
> environments (KDE, Gnome and XFCE) on the same computer, and then pick
> which session you want to run when you log in. The "Session" menu on the
> login screen will list all desktop environments and window managers, and
> you can choose which to run.
>
> I have the big three, plus Windowmaker and fluxbox installed on my main
> Ubuntu workstation. XFCE is my default, and it is what I use 90% of the
> time. 9% of the time, I use Windowmaker. And every now and then, I get
> goofy and run either KDE or fluxbox. I'm not a Gnome kinda guy, but I am
> not offended enough by it to uninstall it.


Oh! You missed IceWM, my personal favorite. ;-)

On 2007-07-19, Rodney <me@127.0.0.1> rambled on thusly:

> Oh! You missed IceWM, my personal favorite. ;-)

I tried IceWM once, decided that I liked fluxbox more, then never went
back. I am SO a first impression kinda guy.

--
Michael Fierro (aka Biffster) biffster@NOSPAM-REALLYgmail.com
http://apt-get.us Y!: miguelito_fierro AIM: mfierro1