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Are there significant differences between the LVM of AIX and Linux?
Also, what is the release history of this feature of the OS? I am new
to UNIX of all stripes, running AIX 5.3 on an ebay 170 44P. The LVM is
looking like the first big issue to tackle when learning AIX/Linux.

Did the LVM in Linux and AIX come out around the year 2000 or so? If
so, any major changes since then?

If the LVM of Linux and AIX did come out around the same time, why the
difference in terminology? In Linux you have physical extents vs AIX
physical partitions? To grow a logical volume in Linux you "lvextend".
Not the same in AIX?

I am looking to automate the allocation of space as much as possible. I
am an AS400 refugee where OS400 handles all of this automatically. I
like the flexibility of the LVM approach but would like the ability to
put the system on auto pilot also.

thanks,

-Steve

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:37:27 -0700, StephenRichter wrote:

> Are there significant differences between the LVM of AIX and Linux?
> Also, what is the release history of this feature of the OS? I am new
> to UNIX of all stripes, running AIX 5.3 on an ebay 170 44P. The LVM is
> looking like the first big issue to tackle when learning AIX/Linux.
>
> Did the LVM in Linux and AIX come out around the year 2000 or so? If
> so, any major changes since then?

That's probably about right for Linux; at least, it was in most of the
mainline distributions around then. According to Wikipedia, it began
around 1998. There are major internal changes between v1 and v2
implementations, but you can upgrade in-place and the tools themselves
didn't really change much.

The AIX LVM is considerably older; I cannot say how much, but I'd guess
maybe 10 years or so?

The Linux LVM is based on the HP-UX LVM, which is probably approximately
as old as the AIX LVM, which is why the commands are different.

> If the LVM of Linux and AIX did come out around the same time, why the
> difference in terminology? In Linux you have physical extents vs AIX
> physical partitions? To grow a logical volume in Linux you "lvextend".
> Not the same in AIX?

AIX takes over the whole disk; Linux runs primarily on PCs, so there has
to be a DOS partition table on at least the first disk for booting--after
that, they're not required, but are conventionally used. From the
perspective of forming a mental model, Linux PEs and AIX PPs probably
aren't that much different, but there's an extra legacy layer in Linux on
PCs below it. (It's also convenient for setting up RAID with the MD
driver and putting the LVM on top of the MD devices.)

> I am looking to automate the allocation of space as much as possible. I
> am an AS400 refugee where OS400 handles all of this automatically. I
> like the flexibility of the LVM approach but would like the ability to
> put the system on auto pilot also.

I'm not sure how much automation is necessary; what are the circumstances
requiring such?

Wil

StephenRichter@gmail.com wrote:
> Are there significant differences between the LVM of AIX and Linux?

Vendors copyright their source code so, yeah, they're different.

> Also, what is the release history of this feature of the OS? I am new
> to UNIX of all stripes, running AIX 5.3 on an ebay 170 44P. The LVM is
> looking like the first big issue to tackle when learning AIX/Linux.

No, the first big issue is doing a bit of research... books, faq etc
rather than posting this sort of question.

>
> Did the LVM in Linux and AIX come out around the year 2000 or so? If
> so, any major changes since then?

Re-read above.

JFS has been on AIX since inception.

>
> If the LVM of Linux and AIX did come out around the same time, why the
> difference in terminology? In Linux you have physical extents vs AIX
> physical partitions? To grow a logical volume in Linux you "lvextend".
> Not the same in AIX?

Re-read above & copyright comment.

>
> I am looking to automate the allocation of space as much as possible. I
> am an AS400 refugee where OS400 handles all of this automatically. I
> like the flexibility of the LVM approach but would like the ability to
> put the system on auto pilot also.

Which may work until the first time you have a process run-away and it
sucks every bit of available disk space.

There are lots of good reasons to put limits on things.

Rather than looking for a panacea for an OS switch, start reading.

Wil Cooley wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:37:27 -0700, StephenRichter wrote:
>
> > Are there significant differences between the LVM of AIX and Linux?
> > Also, what is the release history of this feature of the OS? I am new
> > to UNIX of all stripes, running AIX 5.3 on an ebay 170 44P. The LVM is
> > looking like the first big issue to tackle when learning AIX/Linux.
> >
> > Did the LVM in Linux and AIX come out around the year 2000 or so? If
> > so, any major changes since then?
>
> That's probably about right for Linux; at least, it was in most of the
> mainline distributions around then. According to Wikipedia, it began
> around 1998. There are major internal changes between v1 and v2
> implementations, but you can upgrade in-place and the tools themselves
> didn't really change much.
>
> The AIX LVM is considerably older; I cannot say how much, but I'd guess
> maybe 10 years or so?
>
> The Linux LVM is based on the HP-UX LVM, which is probably approximately
> as old as the AIX LVM, which is why the commands are different.

got it.

> > If the LVM of Linux and AIX did come out around the same time, why the
> > difference in terminology? In Linux you have physical extents vs AIX
> > physical partitions? To grow a logical volume in Linux you "lvextend".
> > Not the same in AIX?
>
> AIX takes over the whole disk; Linux runs primarily on PCs, so there has
> to be a DOS partition table on at least the first disk for booting--after
> that, they're not required, but are conventionally used. From the
> perspective of forming a mental model, Linux PEs and AIX PPs probably
> aren't that much different, but there's an extra legacy layer in Linux on
> PCs below it. (It's also convenient for setting up RAID with the MD
> driver and putting the LVM on top of the MD devices.)

Linux on RS6000/p5? Or does the primary partition of a p5 have to be
AIX? Dont bother with this question much, but what I am utlimately
getting at is whether I should run AIX or Linux. If the Linux LVM has
more features than AIX, why use AIX?

> > I am looking to automate the allocation of space as much as possible. I
> > am an AS400 refugee where OS400 handles all of this automatically. I
> > like the flexibility of the LVM approach but would like the ability to
> > put the system on auto pilot also.
>
> I'm not sure how much automation is necessary; what are the circumstances
> requiring such?

while FTPing to my just arrived ebay 170 44P the FTP just halted.
Turned out the /home file system was full. I would like all the file
systems in a volume group to be able to grow and shrink within the
confines of the PPs in the VG. When a file system is getting full I
would like to get an email. When a process is halted because of space
I would like to add space to the file system and see the process
continue on without abending.

-Steve

base60 wrote:
> StephenRichter@gmail.com wrote:
> > Are there significant differences between the LVM of AIX and Linux?
>
> Vendors copyright their source code so, yeah, they're different.
>
> > Also, what is the release history of this feature of the OS? I am new
> > to UNIX of all stripes, running AIX 5.3 on an ebay 170 44P. The LVM is
> > looking like the first big issue to tackle when learning AIX/Linux.
>
> No, the first big issue is doing a bit of research... books, faq etc
> rather than posting this sort of question.

suit yourself. I answer a lot of questions on line and never give this
kind of response. Just dont think you have to give a comprehensive
answer and you should be fine.

regarding books on AIX, etc. The only IBM redbook on AIX LVM is dated
2000. The AIX 5L admin book by Randall Michael I have is copyright
2002. ( that is why I was thinking the Linux LVM and AIX version came
out around the same time. ) I have been at this a week or two and see
two AIX books on Amazon, no non IBM web site dedicated to AIX. The IBM
site is ok but it does not put its info in context.

Learning AIX is doable. The archives of this NG that I access thru
google groups is the best resource. The issue when I search here is
that a lot of hits refer back to posts in the 1990s. So I dont know
what is relevent and what is not.

> >
> > Did the LVM in Linux and AIX come out around the year 2000 or so? If
> > so, any major changes since then?
>
> Re-read above.
>
> JFS has been on AIX since inception.
>
> >
> > If the LVM of Linux and AIX did come out around the same time, why the
> > difference in terminology? In Linux you have physical extents vs AIX
> > physical partitions? To grow a logical volume in Linux you "lvextend".
> > Not the same in AIX?
>
> Re-read above & copyright comment.
>
> >
> > I am looking to automate the allocation of space as much as possible. I
> > am an AS400 refugee where OS400 handles all of this automatically. I
> > like the flexibility of the LVM approach but would like the ability to
> > put the system on auto pilot also.
>
> Which may work until the first time you have a process run-away and it
> sucks every bit of available disk space.

in OS400 you set a size limit at the file level. The OS400 library,
which is roughly equivalent to the UNIX file system, has no size
limits. The size limit of the files ( we are talking database files )
is set to a number of rows. You can set the limit to *nomax or a
number of rows you know the file/table will never grow to. The default
for a new table might be 30,000 rows. When you hit the limit the job
stops, an inquiry message is sent to the QSYSOPR message queue, and you
can respond to cancel the job or increase the size limit and the job
continues on its merry way. Works very well. I have never seen an
as400 system crash because of a run away job. They do run out of
space, but that is because idiot IBM prices i5 hardware and i5/OS
software at such a premium that users often are running on undersized
systems. I drool when I visit the IBM p5 site and see the quad core
systems selling at market prices. A quad core i5 will be priced at mid
6 figures easy.

>
> There are lots of good reasons to put limits on things.
>
> Rather than looking for a panacea for an OS switch, start reading.

WIll do. Appreciate any help I get.

-Steve

Wil Cooley wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:37:27 -0700, StephenRichter wrote:
>
>> Are there significant differences between the LVM of AIX and Linux?
>> Also, what is the release history of this feature of the OS? I am new
>> to UNIX of all stripes, running AIX 5.3 on an ebay 170 44P. The LVM is
>> looking like the first big issue to tackle when learning AIX/Linux.
>>
>> Did the LVM in Linux and AIX come out around the year 2000 or so? If
>> so, any major changes since then?
>
> That's probably about right for Linux; at least, it was in most of the
> mainline distributions around then. According to Wikipedia, it began
> around 1998. There are major internal changes between v1 and v2
> implementations, but you can upgrade in-place and the tools themselves
> didn't really change much.
>
> The AIX LVM is considerably older; I cannot say how much, but I'd guess
> maybe 10 years or so?

More like 18.

>
> The Linux LVM is based on the HP-UX LVM, which is probably approximately
> as old as the AIX LVM, which is why the commands are different.

No. HP-UX LVM is around 8 - 10 years old and doesn't work the same...
or at least it didn't.

I believe both were based on OSF LVM.


>
>> If the LVM of Linux and AIX did come out around the same time, why the
>> difference in terminology? In Linux you have physical extents vs AIX
>> physical partitions? To grow a logical volume in Linux you "lvextend".
>> Not the same in AIX?
>
> AIX takes over the whole disk; Linux runs primarily on PCs, so there has
> to be a DOS partition table on at least the first disk for booting--after
> that, they're not required, but are conventionally used. From the
> perspective of forming a mental model, Linux PEs and AIX PPs probably
> aren't that much different, but there's an extra legacy layer in Linux on
> PCs below it. (It's also convenient for setting up RAID with the MD
> driver and putting the LVM on top of the MD devices.)
>
>> I am looking to automate the allocation of space as much as possible. I
>> am an AS400 refugee where OS400 handles all of this automatically. I
>> like the flexibility of the LVM approach but would like the ability to
>> put the system on auto pilot also.
>
> I'm not sure how much automation is necessary; what are the circumstances
> requiring such?
>
> Wil

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:30:23 -0700, StephenRichter wrote:

> Linux on RS6000/p5? Or does the primary partition of a p5 have to be
> AIX? Dont bother with this question much, but what I am utlimately
> getting at is whether I should run AIX or Linux. If the Linux LVM has
> more features than AIX, why use AIX?

Oh, I don't know; if you've got a pSeries/RS6k, when run AIX on it--get a
PC and run Linux on it.

The LVM isn't really much of a deciding point between one or the other;
they're too similar in features for it to make much of a difference.

> while FTPing to my just arrived ebay 170 44P the FTP just halted. Turned
> out the /home file system was full. I would like all the file systems in
> a volume group to be able to grow and shrink within the confines of the
> PPs in the VG. When a file system is getting full I would like to get an
> email. When a process is halted because of space I would like to add
> space to the file system and see the process continue on without
> abending.

None of this is automatic on any UNIX system I know of; it's all left to
the user to figure out. You really wouldn't want filesystems to grow
automatically like this, because you can end up with some one or some
process hogging your whole disk with junk--and then when a filesystem that
actually needs the space tries to grow, it'll fail. But you won't notice
because you expect it to be automatic.

Wil

StephenRichter@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Did the LVM in Linux and AIX come out around the year 2000 or so?
>

AIX Version 3 came out towards the end of 1989, almost 17 years ago,
and it already had LVM and JFS. The coolest things to show then was
that one could increase the size of a file system without unmounting it
and coming up without an fsck after yanking the power off the system
without a shutdown, the only *nix OS able to do that for many years. I
did have fun showing it off back then.

--
Luis P Caamano
Atlanta, GA USA

StephenRichter@gmail.com wrote:
> base60 wrote:
>> StephenRichter@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Are there significant differences between the LVM of AIX and Linux?
>> Vendors copyright their source code so, yeah, they're different.
>>
>>> Also, what is the release history of this feature of the OS? I am new
>>> to UNIX of all stripes, running AIX 5.3 on an ebay 170 44P. The LVM is
>>> looking like the first big issue to tackle when learning AIX/Linux.
>> No, the first big issue is doing a bit of research... books, faq etc
>> rather than posting this sort of question.
>
> suit yourself. I answer a lot of questions on line and never give this
> kind of response.

Helpful is in the eyes of the helper :-)

>Just dont think you have to give a comprehensive
> answer and you should be fine.
>
> regarding books on AIX, etc. The only IBM redbook on AIX LVM is dated
> 2000. The AIX 5L admin book by Randall Michael I have is copyright
> 2002. ( that is why I was thinking the Linux LVM and AIX version came
> out around the same time. ) I have been at this a week or two and see
> two AIX books on Amazon, no non IBM web site dedicated to AIX. The IBM
> site is ok but it does not put its info in context.

The reason there are no books on AIX LVMs is that it's probably
not considered a complicated enough topic to warrant one. Really.

Both of the references above should be reasonably current.

Try going to http://www.ibm.com and doing a search on "redbook aix"

There is one on storage management.

>
> Learning AIX is doable. The archives of this NG that I access thru
> google groups is the best resource. The issue when I search here is
> that a lot of hits refer back to posts in the 1990s. So I dont know
> what is relevent and what is not.

FAQs are generally reasonably current, and if you check wiki
you'll see they discuss LVM & OSF.

The LVM on linux and HP-UX was derived from OSF.

>
>>> Did the LVM in Linux and AIX come out around the year 2000 or so? If
>>> so, any major changes since then?
>> Re-read above.
>>
>> JFS has been on AIX since inception.
>>
>>> If the LVM of Linux and AIX did come out around the same time, why the
>>> difference in terminology? In Linux you have physical extents vs AIX
>>> physical partitions? To grow a logical volume in Linux you "lvextend".
>>> Not the same in AIX?
>> Re-read above & copyright comment.
>>
>>> I am looking to automate the allocation of space as much as possible. I
>>> am an AS400 refugee where OS400 handles all of this automatically. I
>>> like the flexibility of the LVM approach but would like the ability to
>>> put the system on auto pilot also.
>> Which may work until the first time you have a process run-away and it
>> sucks every bit of available disk space.
>
> in OS400 you set a size limit at the file level. The OS400 library,
> which is roughly equivalent to the UNIX file system, has no size
> limits.

Sure it does, you fill up the disk, the file stops.

If you want, you can do the same to AIX or pretty much any OS.

AS400s were designed for a niche market and they served it reasonably
well.

> The size limit of the files ( we are talking database files )
> is set to a number of rows. You can set the limit to *nomax or a
> number of rows you know the file/table will never grow to. The default
> for a new table might be 30,000 rows. When you hit the limit the job
> stops, an inquiry message is sent to the QSYSOPR message queue, and you
> can respond to cancel the job or increase the size limit and the job
> continues on its merry way. Works very well. I have never seen an
> as400 system crash because of a run away job.

It's a reasonably mature, stable platform... you shouldn't see
many crashes.

Please note that I didn't say I liked RPG etc.

> They do run out of
> space, but that is because idiot IBM prices i5 hardware and i5/OS
> software at such a premium that users often are running on undersized
> systems. I drool when I visit the IBM p5 site and see the quad core
> systems selling at market prices. A quad core i5 will be priced at mid
> 6 figures easy.

That's because IBM can bleed you as they wish... what alternate source
do you have for OS400

>
>> There are lots of good reasons to put limits on things.
>>
>> Rather than looking for a panacea for an OS switch, start reading.
>
> WIll do. Appreciate any help I get.

OK, don't take the following personally.

It's considered lame by many to ask questions that are in the FAQ or
could be answered by a simple google/ask query.

If you do that a lot, people will ignore you.

My response to you was/is actually quite polite for usenet :-)