Joost Kremers <joostkremers@yahoo.com> says...

>but how do you pronounce 'Macon'? rhymes with bacon?

Yes. And "Guy" rhymes with "Eye", not with "Sea."

If I was french it would sound like "ghee mah sone" instead
of "ghi may kun".

How do you pronounce "Joost Kremers?"

....and, to bring the post back on-topic with a lurch, have
you noticed that the longer Linus spends in the US the less
his "Linux" sounds like "Lee-nooks" and the more it sounds
like "lih-nix"?


--
Guy Macon, Electronics Engineer and Project Manager. Remember
Doc Brown from the _Back to the Future_ movies? Do you have a
"challenging" engineering project that only an expert like Doc
Brown can solve? See my resume at [ http://www.guymacon.com ].

Guy Macon wrote:
> Joost Kremers <joostkremers@yahoo.com> says...
>
>>but how do you pronounce 'Macon'? rhymes with bacon?
>
> Yes.

ah, too bad... ;-P

> And "Guy" rhymes with "Eye", not with "Sea."

i had figured that. (it always reminds me of the actor that played
lieutenant Grüber in 'Allo 'Allo. he was called Guy Siner...)[1]

> If I was french it would sound like "ghee mah sone" instead
> of "ghi may kun".

it's from "maçon"? then you could change your name to 'mason'. that's what
it means, after all. ;-)

> How do you pronounce "Joost Kremers?"

the j is like y in 'yes', the double o sort-a like oa in 'boast'. Kremers
is (more or less) like 'Cramer' with an extra s. it's only an
approximation, of course, dutch vowels are different from english vowels,
but it's close enough.

> ...and, to bring the post back on-topic with a lurch, have
> you noticed that the longer Linus spends in the US the less
> his "Linux" sounds like "Lee-nooks" and the more it sounds
> like "lih-nix"?

actually, i've never heard him pronounce it, so i wouldn't know...

[1] kinda hoping i've found a cultural reference that the US guys in here
don't know about... as it's usually the other way around. ;-)

--
Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
since when is vi an editor? a discussion on vi belongs in
comp.tools.unusable or something... ;-)

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Joost Kremers <joostkremers@yahoo.com> is thought to have
typed the following text on 2003-11-13:

> actually, i've never heard him pronounce it, so i wouldn't know...
>
<URL:ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/SillySounds/english.au>
<URL:ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/SillySounds/swedish.au>

- --
Bartosz Oudekerk

Play Rogue, visit exotic locations, meet strange creatures
and kill them.
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On 13 Nov 2003 21:42:10 GMT, Joost Kremers <joostkremers@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Guy Macon wrote:
[Guy]
> (it always reminds me of the actor that played
> lieutenant Grüber in 'Allo 'Allo. he was called Guy Siner...)[1]

I haven't seen that in ages.

>> How do you pronounce "Joost Kremers?"
>
> the j is like y in 'yes',

That part I could guess.

> the double o sort-a like oa in 'boast'.

Ah, thanks for that. I was thinking it was like the double-'o' in
'book' (as opposed to the double-'o' in 'pool', that is).

Does the last part of Joost sound like the English 'st' or 'sht'? I
don't think I've quite picked up the rules for when an 's' sounds like
's' and when it sounds like 'sh' yet.

> Kremers
> is (more or less) like 'Cramer' with an extra s. it's only an
> approximation, of course, dutch vowels are different from english vowels,
> but it's close enough.

Do you roll the 'r' slightly too? Also, as I understand it, the 's' at
the end of a Dutch word sounds like a long 's' (similar to the 's' at
the beginning of English words (e.g 'stop')), as opposed to a short 'z'
sound; is that right?


--
Simon <simon@no-dns-yet.org.uk> **** GPG: F4A23C69
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
- Douglas Adams

Simon wrote:
>> the double o sort-a like oa in 'boast'.
>
> Ah, thanks for that. I was thinking it was like the double-'o' in
> 'book' (as opposed to the double-'o' in 'pool', that is).

oh no. double o in dutch is always like o in 'no' (although keep in mind
that in dutch it's generally not a diphthong, like o in 'no' may be in
english.)

the sounds in 'book' and 'pool' don't exist in dutch. there is a sound that
(i think) is somewhere in between that's written with 'oe'.

> Does the last part of Joost sound like the English 'st' or 'sht'? I
> don't think I've quite picked up the rules for when an 's' sounds like
> 's' and when it sounds like 'sh' yet.

s never sounds like sh, except in some dialects. you're perhaps thinking of
german?

> Do you roll the 'r' slightly too?

that depends on the speaker. some speakers have a trilled r (tip of the
tongue), other speakers have a so-called uvular trill in some positions
(mainly CrV and rV) and something like a dutch j in other positions (mainly
VrC and Vr)

for foreigners, it's usually easiest to use the trilled r, i think.

> Also, as I understand it, the 's' at
> the end of a Dutch word sounds like a long 's' (similar to the 's' at
> the beginning of English words (e.g 'stop')), as opposed to a short 'z'
> sound; is that right?

s is usually not voiced in dutch, some dialects excepted. so it doesn't
sound like 'z'.

--
Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
since when is vi an editor? a discussion on vi belongs in
comp.tools.unusable or something... ;-)

Guy Macon:
>Jess Anderson:
>>Guy Macon:

>>>Price: $3.96
>>>Shipping and Handling: $6.00 US$
>>>http://www.edmunds-enterprises.com/l...tl/product/239

>>Service above and beyond the call; [...] Merci tant.

>The way to pay me back is to report how the Slackware
>intallation went in alt.os.linux.slackware. That way we can
>all learn from your experience.

No problem. I just got email that it has shipped already.

>(I wonder how many people think that I am french because of my
>name? I am 100% British-American...)

I did, and almost wrote Maçon as a result. As for Joost's name,
it's almost the same as the equivalent German, except for the
longer o, but Dutch people tell me I will never get certain
sounds, like the three famous musician-brothers Kuijcken. Names
are tricky: mine is not Swedish but rather Scottish, though a
kind of Scottish that's descended from Scandinavia (Vikings)
with lots of pillagin' and layin' waste... :-)


--
[] Q. Doctor, did you say he was shot in the woods?
[] A. No, I said he was shot in the lumbar region.
[] -- (Courtroom Humor)
--
* Copyright 2003 Jess Anderson (anderson@wisc.edu)
* Window Maker themes: www.jessanderson.org/wmthemes

On 13 Nov 2003 22:33:42 GMT, Joost Kremers <joostkremers@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Simon wrote:
>
> the sounds in 'book' and 'pool' don't exist in dutch. there is a sound that
> (i think) is somewhere in between that's written with 'oe'.

Ok, thanks. 'oe' is similar to 'er' (from 'version') in English, isn't
it?

>> Does the last part of Joost sound like the English 'st' or 'sht'? I
>> don't think I've quite picked up the rules for when an 's' sounds like
>> 's' and when it sounds like 'sh' yet.
>
> s never sounds like sh, except in some dialects. you're perhaps thinking of
> german?

Usually, I am, but not this time.

There were a few Dutch people staying at the same hotel as myself & a
friend when we went skiing and the one I heard talking pronounced ski
as 'shki', so I assumed that the 's' in Dutch sounds like 'sh' in some
words.

>> Do you roll the 'r' slightly too?
>
> that depends on the speaker. some speakers have a trilled r (tip of the
> tongue), other speakers have a so-called uvular trill in some positions
> (mainly CrV and rV) and something like a dutch j in other positions (mainly
> VrC and Vr)

I can see I'm going to have to Google for linguistic terms.

> for foreigners, it's usually easiest to use the trilled r, i think.

Ok, thanks.

>> Also, as I understand it, the 's' at
>> the end of a Dutch word sounds like a long 's' (similar to the 's' at
>> the beginning of English words (e.g 'stop')), as opposed to a short 'z'
>> sound; is that right?
>
> s is usually not voiced in dutch, some dialects excepted.

Ah. I was comparing the 's' at the end of Kremers with the 's' at the
end of, for example, 'Engels'. Is that the wrong way to think about it
(e.g is 'Engels' a special case, pronunciation-wise?)? It may be that
the people speaking on my Dutch CD are from a place with that dialect.

> so it doesn't sound like 'z'.

Sorry, I meant that the 's' at the end of English words sounds a bit
like a 'z' sometimes (unless it's a double-'s').


--
Simon <simon@no-dns-yet.org.uk> **** GPG: F4A23C69
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
- Douglas Adams

Simon wrote:
> Ok, thanks. 'oe' is similar to 'er' (from 'version') in English, isn't
> it?

no way near... :-/ like i said, it's like oo in 'book' and 'pool', it has a
bit of both. it's very close to the german 'u'.

> There were a few Dutch people staying at the same hotel as myself & a
> friend when we went skiing and the one I heard talking pronounced ski
> as 'shki', so I assumed that the 's' in Dutch sounds like 'sh' in some
> words.

well, like i said, s does go to sh in some dialects, but not in standard
dutch.

>>> Do you roll the 'r' slightly too?
>>
>> that depends on the speaker. some speakers have a trilled r (tip of the
>> tongue), other speakers have a so-called uvular trill in some positions
>> (mainly CrV and rV) and something like a dutch j in other positions (mainly
>> VrC and Vr)
>
> I can see I'm going to have to Google for linguistic terms.

V = vowel, C = consonant. ;-)

>>> Also, as I understand it, the 's' at
>>> the end of a Dutch word sounds like a long 's' (similar to the 's' at
>>> the beginning of English words (e.g 'stop')), as opposed to a short 'z'
>>> sound; is that right?
>>
>> s is usually not voiced in dutch, some dialects excepted.
>
> Ah. I was comparing the 's' at the end of Kremers with the 's' at the
> end of, for example, 'Engels'. Is that the wrong way to think about it
> (e.g is 'Engels' a special case, pronunciation-wise?)?

no, the s in 'engels' in not special. it's the same as in
'kremers'... (well, i notice that there is some colouring of the s in
'engels' as a result of the l, which is "dark" after vowels, like in
english. that influences the s, but it doesn't voice it...)

> Sorry, I meant that the 's' at the end of English words sounds a bit
> like a 'z' sometimes (unless it's a double-'s').

ah, ok, i misunderstood.

--
Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
since when is vi an editor? a discussion on vi belongs in
comp.tools.unusable or something... ;-)

Bartosz Oudekerk <tyranas@lappie.unreachablehost.net> says...

>Joost Kremers <joostkremers@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> actually, i've never heard him pronounce it, so i wouldn't know...
>>
><URL:ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/SillySounds/english.au>
><URL:ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/SillySounds/swedish.au>

swedish.au? Shouldn't we be listening to it in Finnish?

"UNIX has been around so long that there is a rumor that Linus
Torvalds didn't write Linux, he just translated it from the
original runes. That's a myth, of course; everyone knows how
Linux got started (but only Linus knows the Finnish)."
-Michael Swaine, _Dr. Dobb's Journal_ November 1999




--
Guy Macon, Electronics Engineer and Project Manager. Remember
Doc Brown from the _Back to the Future_ movies? Do you have a
"challenging" engineering project that only an expert like Doc
Brown can solve? See my resume at [ http://www.guymacon.com ].

Guy Macon wrote:
> swedish.au? Shouldn't we be listening to it in Finnish?

Linus belongs to the swedish minority in finland.

--
Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
since when is vi an editor? a discussion on vi belongs in
comp.tools.unusable or something... ;-)