Been in NYC attending a number of publishing industry events:

http://asaturdayrant.blogspot.com/20...iary-2005.html

There were not a lot of computer books on exhibit at the huge BookExpo but
some of the publishers I spoke with did have an interest in books about
Linux. One of them, Apress (http://apress.com), mentioned interest in the
new Slackware book done by Hicks and company. Maybe someone from that team
wants to contact this publisher and see if they want to bring out a hard
copy...or perhaps use it as a basis for a longer, more complete tome on
Linux in general? Just a thought.

BTW, if you ask "Why would anyone buy a hard-copy book when they can read it
for free?" all I can say is that they do. The Rute manual sells pretty
well as do some other free e-books when brought out in what we call 'dead
tree' version.

Al C.

Al. C. wrote :

> One of them, Apress (http://apress.com), mentioned interest in the
> new Slackware book done by Hicks and company.

Well they can buy a copy from the Slackware store:
<URL: http://store.slackware.com/cgi-bin/store/slackbook?id=uR93oHCs:mv_pc=21>
--
Thomas O.

This area is designed to become quite warm during normal operation.

Al. C <no_spam_ac3_takeout@adams-blake.nospam.com> wrote:
> One of them, Apress (http://apress.com), mentioned interest in the
> new Slackware book done by Hicks and company. Maybe someone from that team
> wants to contact this publisher and see if they want to bring out a hard
> copy...

From my understanding, the book already has a publisher and a hard copy
already exists that one can purchase via the Slackware Store. If you wish
them to change publishers, have your friends drop Slackware Inc. a line.
Mentioning on the group is rather pointless since the decision makers for
Slackware the company are not regular lurkers here.

Cichlidiot wrote:

> Al. C <no_spam_ac3_takeout@adams-blake.nospam.com> wrote:
>> One of them, Apress (http://apress.com), mentioned interest in the
>> new Slackware book done by Hicks and company. Maybe someone from that
>> team wants to contact this publisher and see if they want to bring out a
>> hard copy...
>
> From my understanding, the book already has a publisher and a hard copy
> already exists that one can purchase via the Slackware Store. If you wish
> them to change publishers, have your friends drop Slackware Inc. a line.
> Mentioning on the group is rather pointless since the decision makers for
> Slackware the company are not regular lurkers here.

I didn't realize that the rights of the book are owned by P.V. I thought
that the authors retained copyright and that P.V. simply was distributing
the tome via the Slackware Store.

If P.V. wants to license the publication rights to another party I'm sure he
knows how to go about that and needs no help from me or anyone else.

Thanks for the update.

Al C.

Al. C <no_spam_ac3_takeout@adams-blake.nospam.com> wrote:
>
> BTW, if you ask "Why would anyone buy a hard-copy book when they can read it
> for free?" all I can say is that they do. The Rute manual sells pretty
> well as do some other free e-books when brought out in what we call 'dead
> tree' version.

Because reading online documentation sucks - nothing beats a real book.

- Kurt

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 02:16:43 +0000, Al. C wrote:
> I didn't realize that the rights of the book are owned by P.V. I thought
> that the authors retained copyright and that P.V. simply was distributing
> the tome via the Slackware Store.

The book is under the GPL, so practically anyone can publish it. Of
course, it would be without the blessing of the authors/editor of the
revised Slack book.

-- Daniel

Daniel de Kok wrote:

> The book is under the GPL, so practically anyone can publish it. Of
> course, it would be without the blessing of the authors/editor of the
> revised Slack book.

Slackware Linux, Inc. owns the copyright to the work. The GPL is basically
untested in court when it comes to copyright. I'm not sure that the GPL
supercedes 200 years of copyright law.

There ARE provisions for putting things in the public domain and it is not
retractable. TTBOMK, Slackware Linux, Inc. could easily revoke any GPL
'privileges' it has granted. The GPL is not the same as 'public domain.'

The point being is that I can't think of any legitimate book publisher whose
corporate lawyers would give them the green light to go off and accept the
GPL argument and (re)publish and sell the book under their own imprint...
without express permission from the copyright holder.

Al C.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:55:30 +0000, Al. C wrote:
> Slackware Linux, Inc. owns the copyright to the work. The GPL is basically
> untested in court when it comes to copyright. I'm not sure that the GPL
> supercedes 200 years of copyright law.
>
> There ARE provisions for putting things in the public domain and it is not
> retractable. TTBOMK, Slackware Linux, Inc. could easily revoke any GPL
> 'privileges' it has granted. The GPL is not the same as 'public domain.'

No, they can not just revoke it. They may choose to relicense it under
another license* if they are the sole copyright owner. But the existing
copies are licensed under the GPL, and may always be distributed according
to the terms of the GPL (except at a certain point in time it will enter
the public domain, depending on the laws of the country one lives in).

The case of the revised book is different: it contains contributions from
other parties outside Slackware Linux Inc. (Alan's horde of hacking
Slackers), that were made under the terms of the GPL. Slackware Linux Inc.
cannot relicense the 2.0 version of the book without permission from all
contributors to the revised book.

> The point being is that I can't think of any legitimate book publisher whose
> corporate lawyers would give them the green light to go off and accept the
> GPL argument and (re)publish and sell the book under their own imprint...
> without express permission from the copyright holder.

They would be permitted to republish and sell the book without permission
of the copyright holder, as long as they comply with the terms of the GPL.

-- Daniel

* I actually relicensed the Slackware Linux Basics book
(http://www.slackbasics.org/), which was originally published under the
GNU Free Documentation License, but is now available under a BSD-like
license (very much like the license of the FreeBSD Handbook). This was
possible, because I was the only writer of the book. Now that there are
other contributions I would have to ask the other contributors for
permission to change the license (or maybe cut their parts out).

There may still be GFDL-ed copies of my book out there, and everyone who
has a copy is still allowed to distribute and change their copy under
the terms of the GFDL. There is not much I can do (nor want) to do about
that.

In the open source/free software world (pick the paradigm you prefer),
things don't work like they used to .

Daniel de Kok wrote:

> The case of the revised book is different: it contains contributions from
> other parties outside Slackware Linux Inc. (Alan's horde of hacking
> Slackers), that were made under the terms of the GPL. Slackware Linux Inc.
> cannot relicense the 2.0 version of the book without permission from all
> contributors to the revised book.

To be clear, I've been talking about the revised book all the time. Now
according to this page:

http://slackbook.lizella.net/html/index.html

It says:

Slackware Linux Essentials

Alan Hicks
Chris Lumens
David Cantrell
Logan Johnson

Copyright © 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 Slackware Linux,
Inc.
1-57176-338-4

So I assume that P.V., owns the rights to the book as he owns Slackware
Linux, Inc. (although I have yet to determine if he 'legally' still owns
the corporation as I'm not sure the corp is still registered anywhere (and
has not expired.)

Its used to be rather rare for a publisher to own the copyright to a book.
The vast majority of authors retain copyright in their own names or jointly
with other authors and license the work to the publisher (who pays
royalty)... however more and more these days (especially with short-lived
tech books) the publisher buys the entire work for one price and owns it
(and does not pay royalty).

I did see this for the ORIGINAL "Slackware Essentials":
http://www.frozenblue.net/tools/slac...1.html#AEN4665
but I don't see where this (GPL) supercedes US copyright law with respect to
a written work. I know that *I* would not try to publish this book and sell
it because I take no comfort that the GPL would protect me from a suit from
Slackware Linux should they choose to contest.

I also don't see were Hicks, et. al. have any rights at all but maybe there
is a side agreement we don't know about. As I said before, based on what I
see and what I know from being in the publishing biz, GPL or no GPL, I
don't think any publisher can print and publish and sell this book without
running the risk of being sued for copyright infringement.... unless there
is a statement IN THE BOOK to the contrary.

Al C.

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:33:11 +0000, Al. C wrote:
> To be clear, I've been talking about the revised book all the time.

Ack.

> So I assume that P.V., owns the rights to the book as he owns Slackware
> Linux, Inc. (although I have yet to determine if he 'legally' still owns
> the corporation as I'm not sure the corp is still registered anywhere
> (and has not expired.)

> I did see this for the ORIGINAL "Slackware Essentials":
> http://www.frozenblue.net/tools/slac...1.html#AEN4665 but I
> don't see where this (GPL) supercedes US copyright law with respect to a
> written work. I know that *I* would not try to publish this book and
> sell it because I take no comfort that the GPL would protect me from a
> suit from Slackware Linux should they choose to contest.

From the GPL:

"1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source
code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and
appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and
disclaimer of warranty; keep intact all the notices that refer to this
License and to the absence of any warranty; and give any other recipients
of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program."

Though, I do agree that the GPL is a bit awkward for books, because it
constantly refers to "program", "source code", and "object code". Most
free (as in freedom) documentation licenses developed at a later stage
than software licenses. Many old GNU/Linux related documentation is
licensed under the GPL. Possibly because people found the GPL the right
thing, or just didn't care about licenses as long as it fitted in with the
free philosophy.

> I also don't see were Hicks, et. al. have any rights at all but maybe
> there is a side agreement we don't know about.

Adding small paragraphs/fixes may be a gray area, but if someone
contributed a new chapter to the book it is their property. Adding it to a
GPL work requires that the newly added chapter is also licensed under the
GPL. BTW. it is not necessary to add a copyright notice, under the Berne
Convention authors automatically have copyrights on a work (if it is
original, etc.).

The resulting work contains parts that are copyrighted by the original
authors, and parts that are copyrighted by the new contributors.

> As I said before, based on what I see and what I know from being in the
> publishing biz, GPL or no GPL, I don't think any publisher can print and
> publish and sell this book without running the risk of being sued for
> copyright infringement.... unless there is a statement IN THE BOOK to
> the contrary.

Slackware Linux Inc. is obligated to include the GPL license, and the GPL
license allows you, or anyone else to redistribute it. The same thing
applies to the PDF, HTML, etc. files you can download from the Slack Book
site.

-- Daniel