This is the periodic posting of one of the new reader questions of the
alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ-O-Matic. The full FAQ is available at
http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom for your convenience.

If you are a new reader of the newsgroup, you are strongly encouraged
to read this entire document and the full FAQ before posting.

Are there other places to discuss Slackware?

* Aside from alt.os.linux.slackware, there are many other places to
discuss Slackware. A web search engine will provide links to many, but
here are a few for your convenience:

'LinuxQuestions.org - Slackware - where Linux newbies come for help'
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...php?forumid=14

The userlocal.com Slackware forums http://www.userlocal.com/phorum/

The linuxpackages.net Slackware forums
http://www.linuxpackages.net/forum/

The linuxiso.org Slackware forum
http://www.linuxiso.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=25

The dropline.net Slackware forums http://www.dropline.net/forums/

A public Slackware mailing list
http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/slackware

apropos@linuxmail.org, kkeller@speakeasy.net

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ-O-Matic wrote:
| This is the periodic posting of one of the new reader questions of the
| alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ-O-Matic. The full FAQ is available at
| http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom for your convenience.
|
| If you are a new reader of the newsgroup, you are strongly encouraged
| to read this entire document and the full FAQ before posting.
|
| Are there other places to discuss Slackware?
|
| * Aside from alt.os.linux.slackware, there are many other places to
| discuss Slackware. A web search engine will provide links to many, but
| here are a few for your convenience:
|
| 'LinuxQuestions.org - Slackware - where Linux newbies come for help'
| http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...php?forumid=14
|
| The userlocal.com Slackware forums http://www.userlocal.com/phorum/
|
| The linuxpackages.net Slackware forums
| http://www.linuxpackages.net/forum/
|
| The linuxiso.org Slackware forum
| http://www.linuxiso.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=25
|
| The dropline.net Slackware forums http://www.dropline.net/forums/
|
| A public Slackware mailing list
| http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/slackware
|
| apropos@linuxmail.org, kkeller@speakeasy.net
|
|
Not sure where to send this to, but how about #slackware on
irc.freenode.net?

- --
Fred Emmott

(cyclo @ irc.freenode.net)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/mBDPKt5SHnEKaRoRAqxpAJ4xbVKn0EXhlnp83a2DqZUJY+Wf0A CfVb9I
66sNLK6zIO9l6INgRaYQk20=
=P5WH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

In article <3f9802ca_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Fred Emmott wrote:
> Not sure where to send this to,

Keith will see it here; he probably already has.

> but how about #slackware on irc.freenode.net?

I went there for a few days some months back, and I left in disgust. A
participant, not a native English speaker it seemed, was engaging in
useful, topical discussion, and he casually let slip a Saxon word which
in American English is classified as an obscenity. He was kicked for it.

The channel "rules" (as I'm sure you know) prohibit "obscenity", but
apparently without a thought as to the global nature of the Internet as
opposed to the local cultural standards of obscenity. I grew up with
Mexican friends in whose house scatological matters were discussed
without so much as a raised eyebrow, but where epithets of religious
nature always got powerful negative reactions.

I told the op what I thought of his action and of the channel policy.
Then I left, never to return.

I have a rather low opinion of those who wish to position themselves in
positions of "authority" in online communication media. No, that's not
the same as the service providers and the people who represent them. I'm
specifically referring to the "ops" and "moderators" of the online
world. Quite a pitiful lot.

Anyway, this is just me saying why you won't see me there. I will concur
from my short experience there: people might find help for many simple
problems through #slackware on irc.freenode.net. More complex issues are
better handled in media with some degree of permanance, such as Usenet.
Why should someone type a long discussion of a complex issue in IRC? At
lease here it is archived.
--
/dev/rob0 - preferred_email=i$((28*28+28))@softhome.net
or put "not-spam" or "/dev/rob0" in Subject header to reply

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2003-10-23, Fred Emmott <pcfreak65@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Not sure where to send this to, but how about #slackware on
> irc.freenode.net?

If I just add the above to that FAQ entry, will people know how to get
to it? I know nothing about IRC, and don't want to write something
totally stupid (like "send mail to alt.os.linux.slackware, and you might
get an email message back").

- --keith

- --
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAj+YMJYACgkQhVcNCxZ5ID85uQCfehY1FgSSzp 8FpRzGGSDQzqVX
y+8AoJm3qtZG6qLI0gQAGIXzIMIEzRol
=8/eS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Keith Keller wrote:
| On 2003-10-23, Fred Emmott <pcfreak65@hotmail.com> wrote:
|
|>Not sure where to send this to, but how about #slackware on
|>irc.freenode.net?
|
|
| If I just add the above to that FAQ entry, will people know how to get
| to it? I know nothing about IRC, and don't want to write something
| totally stupid (like "send mail to alt.os.linux.slackware, and you might
| get an email message back").
|
| --keith
|
Yep people would know

rob0 said something about being kicked for an obscenity, even if it was
not his fault, I personally dont believe that it is moderators fault if
they do not have a list of words that arent obscene in other cultures,
and even if they did, I am not sure that I would apreciate a moderator
that would let anything be said if the person who said it point out a
language or culture where it is not obscene.

- --
Fred Emmott

GPG Key ID 0x710A691A

(cyclo @ irc.freenode.net)

- -----

Perl: The only language that looks the same before and after a RSA
encryption
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/mEK5Kt5SHnEKaRoRAm/QAKCAAV2oxXroSQMdY9cmn2zwazPoCwCeL0x5
eQjucquqMq5NTiU+yxuJENw=
=HHoe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

In article <3f9834b5$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Fred Emmott wrote:
> rob0 said something about being kicked for an obscenity, even if it was

I said nothing of the sort. I said I quit #slackware at irc.freenode.net
after I saw someone being kicked for use of "offensive" language. BTW
the op didn't say anything to the "offender" at all. He just kicked the
user, who had no way of knowing he had done something "wrong".

> not his fault, I personally dont believe that it is moderators fault if
> they do not have a list of words that arent obscene in other cultures,

It is the "fault" of the person or group who makes and enforces a policy
based purely on petty American sensibilities, when the forum is global
in nature. Did you read what I wrote? I didn't suggest anything like
that at all.

> and even if they did, I am not sure that I would apreciate a moderator
> that would let anything be said if the person who said it point out a
> language or culture where it is not obscene.

Welcome to Usenet, where anyone can say anything they want to say. You
will either learn to deal with it, or you will run away. Small-minded
people who were raised under too much control often find that anarchy is
beyond their ability to cope.
--
/dev/rob0 - preferred_email=i$((28*28+28))@softhome.net
or put "not-spam" or "/dev/rob0" in Subject header to reply

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

/dev/rob0 wrote:
| In article <3f9834b5$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
| Fred Emmott wrote:
|
|>rob0 said something about being kicked for an obscenity, even if it was
|
|
| I said nothing of the sort. I said I quit #slackware at irc.freenode.net
| after I saw someone being kicked for use of "offensive" language. BTW
| the op didn't say anything to the "offender" at all. He just kicked the
| user, who had no way of knowing he had done something "wrong".
|

sorry, re-read, my bad

|
|>not his fault, I personally dont believe that it is moderators fault if
|>they do not have a list of words that arent obscene in other cultures,
|
|
| It is the "fault" of the person or group who makes and enforces a policy
| based purely on petty American sensibilities, when the forum is global
| in nature. Did you read what I wrote? I didn't suggest anything like
| that at all.
|

|
|>and even if they did, I am not sure that I would apreciate a moderator
|>that would let anything be said if the person who said it point out a
|>language or culture where it is not obscene.
|

Some people were offended by their language, and the points i was trying
to make (albeit badly), are 1) moderators have to cater for the majority
of the audience, 2) even though the internet is global, the majority of
the population of most freenet chatrooms speak english primarily, so I
personally would consider it the priority of the participants to be
careful not to offend people, rather than the telling the moderators to
allow offensive words because it isn't their fault.

~From my experience #slackware on irc.freenode.net is one of the nicer
irc channels. On others i have seen people kickbanned for saying lamo,
or any other standard abbreviation, because "it shows they cant be
bothered to type in full, so we cant be bothered to listen to them",
namely #slackware and #perl on efnet.

|
| Welcome to Usenet, where anyone can say anything they want to say. You
| will either learn to deal with it, or you will run away. Small-minded
| people who were raised under too much control often find that anarchy is
| beyond their ability to cope.

I didnt say anything contrary to this. Sorry if I implied this.

- --
Fred Emmott
(GPG Key ID 0x710A691A)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/mVyoKt5SHnEKaRoRAgZqAKCeEXDWK0pMUq6iYq9+jfmuRimlmg Cfb8pc
AAn/50p4vd87Nq8NRFns8Yc=
=jY/Q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

In article <3f994eab$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Fred Emmott wrote:
> sorry, re-read, my bad

Thanks.

> Some people were offended by their language, and the points i was trying
> to make (albeit badly), are 1) moderators have to cater for the majority

Yes, but this is only true when you accept as given that control of
others' behaviour is a good thing. I do not. And in terms of being
offended, that matter is always 100% under the control of the offendee!

Please consider that for a moment. It's true. That's the big problem I
see with the massive latter-day "politically correct" crusades designed
to protect people's feelings: it's futile to address the symptom but not
the cause.[1]

> of the audience, 2) even though the internet is global, the majority of
> the population of most freenet chatrooms speak english primarily, so I

The point *I* was trying to make, albeit badly, was that even native
English speakers will vary by cultural background in what they find
offensive. Words of Saxon origin pertaining to scatological or sexual
functions or behaviours are not patently offensive to all native
speakers of English. It's wrong to expect everyone to relate to the
humour in George Carlin's famous sociological[2] study of "the seven
dirty words."

> personally would consider it the priority of the participants to be
> careful not to offend people, rather than the telling the moderators to
> allow offensive words because it isn't their fault.

Agreed that consideration of others is always good, but not as good as
people getting their own reactions of disgust under control. I try to do
both, myself.

>| Welcome to Usenet, where anyone can say anything they want to say. You
>| will either learn to deal with it, or you will run away. Small-minded
>| people who were raised under too much control often find that anarchy is
>| beyond their ability to cope.
>
> I didnt say anything contrary to this. Sorry if I implied this.

I know, and I commend you for passing my little test. You seem to
understand that the comment was a general one and not directed at you
personally.


[1] Imagine that line spoken by Tim Curry.
[2] I'm not sure that sociology is the right discipline to which to
attribute this work. A tangential point I'm trying to make is that
Mr. Carlin as a popular entertainer is often underestimated. This
comedy routine was actually a thought-provoking study of what
people find offensive in language, and why.
--
/dev/rob0 - preferred_email=i$((28*28+28))@softhome.net
or put "not-spam" or "/dev/rob0" in Subject header to reply

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

/dev/rob0 wrote:
| In article <3f994eab$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
| Fred Emmott wrote:
|
|>sorry, re-read, my bad
|
|
| Thanks.
|
|
|>Some people were offended by their language, and the points i was trying
|>to make (albeit badly), are 1) moderators have to cater for the majority
|
|
| Yes, but this is only true when you accept as given that control of
| others' behaviour is a good thing. I do not. And in terms of being
| offended, that matter is always 100% under the control of the offendee!
|

True enough

| Please consider that for a moment. It's true. That's the big problem I
| see with the massive latter-day "politically correct" crusades designed
| to protect people's feelings:

I'm not entirely sure i associate "political correctness" as being the
same thing...

| it's futile to address the symptom but not
| the cause.[1]
|

Question is, is the cause the peoples tollerance (for want of a better
word) for other cultures, or is it the person who says something that
could have an alternative meaning/effect?

(typing that made me realise more what you meant, not the persons fault
if they type something with an alternative meaning/effect/[insert better
word here])

|
|>of the audience, 2) even though the internet is global, the majority of
|>the population of most freenet chatrooms speak english primarily, so I
|
|
| The point *I* was trying to make, albeit badly, was that even native
| English speakers will vary by cultural background in what they find
| offensive. Words of Saxon origin pertaining to scatological or sexual
| functions or behaviours are not patently offensive to all native
| speakers of English. It's wrong to expect everyone to relate to the
| humour in George Carlin's famous sociological[2] study of "the seven
| dirty words."
|

True enough

|
|>personally would consider it the priority of the participants to be
|>careful not to offend people, rather than the telling the moderators to
|>allow offensive words because it isn't their fault.
|
|
| Agreed that consideration of others is always good, but not as good as
| people getting their own reactions of disgust under control. I try to do
| both, myself.
|

/me to (sorry for the IRCism)

|
|>| Welcome to Usenet, where anyone can say anything they want to say. You
|>| will either learn to deal with it, or you will run away. Small-minded
|>| people who were raised under too much control often find that anarchy is
|>| beyond their ability to cope.
|>
|>I didnt say anything contrary to this. Sorry if I implied this.
|
|
| I know, and I commend you for passing my little test. You seem to
| understand that the comment was a general one and not directed at you
| personally.
|

is there a prize?

|
| [1] Imagine that line spoken by Tim Curry.
| [2] I'm not sure that sociology is the right discipline to which to
| attribute this work. A tangential point I'm trying to make is that
| Mr. Carlin as a popular entertainer is often underestimated. This
| comedy routine was actually a thought-provoking study of what
| people find offensive in language, and why.


- --
Fred Emmott
(GPG Key ID 0x710A691A)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/mXLFKt5SHnEKaRoRAjb4AJ44nX1Uo7oYdH7U+NSfEp9R7PTgAQ CeNn1N
NX8iAUI1kw8UmdPEPB3bDYQ=
=qu2X
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----