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hi,

i am a long time debian user but need to run plone which is not currently
available in debian stable.

does anyone have any experience of running either zope or plone on a gentoo
box?

and - after reading through the website i really like the philosophy behind
gentoo - but would like to know how it compares to debian stable in 2
important areas.

stability - debian stable machines can run for years at a time - and even
go through major upgrades without a reboot - how does this compare with
gentoo? do updates cause problems?
(i am thinking of a server box so no X or any obscure apps - it would
mainly be apache, postgresql, FTP, postfix etc).

security - debian stable has security patches released extremely quickly -
and all patches/updates are installed from a single command. again, how
does this compare with gentoo? does the 'emerge sync' command also bring
in security patches?

thanks,

kev

PS - are there any books for gentoo or is the online docs detailed enough
for most?

kev wrote:

> stability - debian stable machines can run for years at a time - and even
> go through major upgrades without a reboot - how does this compare with
> gentoo? do updates cause problems?
> (i am thinking of a server box so no X or any obscure apps - it would
> mainly be apache, postgresql, FTP, postfix etc).

I've had no stability problems here. I run a MythTV and a homebrew NAS
machine, both on Gentoo. Plus, from what I gather the Gentoo.org
servers themselves are (appropriately) running Gentoo.


> security - debian stable has security patches released extremely quickly -
> and all patches/updates are installed from a single command. again, how
> does this compare with gentoo? does the 'emerge sync' command also bring
> in security patches?

That was the first thing I missed by switching from Debian to Gentoo.
The ability to turn off all updates *except* security ones. Portage
(Gentoo's package manager) is supposedly going to have this
functionality added in the near future.

There's currently glsa-check for automatically checking security
updates, though it's a work in progress.
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portag...ntegration.xml

With somewhat older hardware and no need for cutting edge software, then
Debian might still be appropriate at this time. Otherwise, give Gentoo
a shot, though.


-WD

kev enlightened us with:
> stability - debian stable machines can run for years at a time - and
> even go through major upgrades without a reboot - how does this
> compare with gentoo? do updates cause problems?

I haven't run Gentoo on a server for years, but a few months didn't
pose any trouble.

> security - debian stable has security patches released extremely
> quickly - and all patches/updates are installed from a single
> command. again, how does this compare with gentoo?

Just as fast.

> does the 'emerge sync' command also bring in security patches?

No. It's comparable with 'apt-get update'. Check the 'glsa-check'
utility for security updates.

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

kev wrote:

> does this compare with gentoo?

> does the 'emerge sync' command also bring
> in security patches?
emerge sync just synchronises the portage.

"emerge --update system" is what you ask. it updates all system related
packages to the next stable version, if there is such. this might be a new
version for security reasons, or just new features.
there also is "emerge --update world", wich will look for updates in system
*and* stuff like KDE, etc..

i regulary check "emerge --update --pretend world" too see whats new and if
i need it.

Dieter Soltau wrote:

> kev wrote:
>
>> does this compare with gentoo?
>
>> does the 'emerge sync' command also bring
>> in security patches?
> emerge sync just synchronises the portage.
>
> "emerge --update system" is what you ask. it updates all system related
> packages to the next stable version, if there is such. this might be a new
> version for security reasons, or just new features.
> there also is "emerge --update world", wich will look for updates in
> system *and* stuff like KDE, etc..
>
> i regulary check "emerge --update --pretend world" too see whats new and
> if i need it.

thanks for the reply.

what is the difference between 'system related packages' and packages such
as KDE?

thanks,

kev

kev wrote:

> what is the difference between 'system related packages' and packages such
> as KDE?
well, the first is that stuff that you installed as you ran "emerge system".
i'll call it the base system.
dont ask what single packages belong to it - i dont know, and seriously dont
care.
"world" is everything i have installed using emerge. packages you installed
manually do (of course) not belong to it. you have to take care of them
yourself.

Dieter Soltau wrote:

> kev wrote:
>
>> what is the difference between 'system related packages' and packages
>> such as KDE?
> well, the first is that stuff that you installed as you ran "emerge
> system". i'll call it the base system.
> dont ask what single packages belong to it - i dont know, and seriously
> dont care.
> "world" is everything i have installed using emerge. packages you
> installed manually do (of course) not belong to it. you have to take care
> of them yourself.

thanks for the pointers,

kev

In article news:<cglmq0$f3$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, Kev wrote:
> Subject: gentoo as a server - good idea?

It's often said not to be a good idea to install development tools
on a publicly acessible server because -- should the box become
compromised -- it makes it easier for a cracker to do more with the
system.

That's not an argument against Gentoo, just a caution that if you
do use Gentoo for a server you might want to build the system on
one box for deployment on another.

Cheers,
Daniel.

Daniel James enlightened us with:
> It's often said not to be a good idea to install development tools
> on a publicly acessible server because -- should the box become
> compromised -- it makes it easier for a cracker to do more with the
> system.

If someone can hack a properly secured box, that person will also be
able to install a crosscompiler on his/her own system. It might help
to prevent some scriptkiddie "attacks", though.

Sybren
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

I have been using gentoo for a while now...
I have recently started using it as a server I think it works very very
very well.
I had used Fedora for about a day. SuSE for about an hour ( after a *ing
seven hour net-install ). Debian I have never used for a server.
but Gentoo works and is very stable and easy to keep up to date.
-FluffyArmada