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Hi all,

I have pretty much always been a Suse linux user. I initially first
installed it simply to see what it was like but have since become a
huge fan. I don't do any linux programming or anything particuarly
technical with it other than listen to music, email, internet,
documents, spreadsheets, MSN/AOL messenger etc. All the common stuff.
Possibly the most 'advanced' thing i use is VMWare in order to run
Windows 2000 for my .NET programming. I stayed with Suse because it
was always the only distro to pick up and install and configure all my
hardware without messing around. Also, because YaST is a superb tool
to install new apps and configure the machine. The problem with Suse I
find is that it is a little slow and so bloated, and since Opensuse 10
came out, my wireless card (a Netgear WG311T with an Atheros chipset)
is no longer detected. And no matter what I try with ndiswrapper or
madwifi it will not work. So, I am still with Suse 9.3.

I have always read about Gentoo being so quick and only having the most
useful packages (the fact that it comes on 1 CD as opposed to a DVD is
also a hint). So, I am considering switching to Gentoo. However, I
have a few doubts that I am hoping people here can answer.

1.) Is it really faster or is that just a myth? My machine is an
AMD64 3400 with 1GB of ram.
2.) Is there a similar tool to YaST for installing new packages and
configuring the machine? I understand the benefit of compiling from
source but, where possible, I would prefer to avoid that and the
headaches that come with it!
3.) I assume there are not the MP3 restrictions like with Suse now?
4.) How good is it at detecting hardware and has anyone managed to get
a WG311T card, or something with the same chipset, working?
5.) Does it come with loads of delicious eye candy and customisations
for KDE which look so cool!!!????!!
6.) Is it worth the change?


Thanks,
Hugh

> 1.) Is it really faster or is that just a myth? My machine is an
> AMD64 3400 with 1GB of ram.
> 2.) Is there a similar tool to YaST for installing new packages and
> configuring the machine? I understand the benefit of compiling from
> source but, where possible, I would prefer to avoid that and the
> headaches that come with it!
> 3.) I assume there are not the MP3 restrictions like with Suse now?
> 4.) How good is it at detecting hardware and has anyone managed to get
> a WG311T card, or something with the same chipset, working?
> 5.) Does it come with loads of delicious eye candy and customisations
> for KDE which look so cool!!!????!!
> 6.) Is it worth the change?

I myself went from SuSE to Gentoo 2½ years ago, but is by no means an
expert. I do not miss YaST or SaX, but enjoy portage very much indeed.
Also, all the tweaking appeals to me.

I'll try to answer your Q's as follows;

1) No...not really. If it is faster, is is only a few %. Not worth changing
distro for. However, you are able to set your optimizations as you
like.....the cost could be stability.

2) I do not know any GUI tools for setting up hardware etc, but there are
tools for portage...ie, upgrade, install, uninstall. There a quite a
few....Kentoo, Guitoo, Kportage, etc. I do not use them.....despite my SuSE
past ;o)

3) Yep......mp3 play, works pretty much out of the box. So does DiVX.

4) Try booting on the Gentoo install CD.......then you will know.

5) That depends on the GUI you choose.....I use KDE, so the full range of
KDE candy is available.

6) YES! :-D I love portage.....the config options, the
tamagotchi'ness...and once I passed the scary bit of compiling my 1st, 2nd,
and 3rd kernel......it's a doddle.

Also....a hint for you. If you are a 1st time Gentoo installer, try
instllaing through Knoppix.....it's easier, when you have a working KDE
environment to your disposal during install, as you can google when things
turn dodgy.

/Stig
--
* Registered Linux user #291266, with http://counter.li.org.*

<SNIP>

> 1) No...not really. If it is faster, is is only a few %. Not worth changing
> distro for. However, you are able to set your optimizations as you
> like.....the cost could be stability.
>
> 2) I do not know any GUI tools for setting up hardware etc, but there are
> tools for portage...ie, upgrade, install, uninstall. There a quite a
> few....Kentoo, Guitoo, Kportage, etc. I do not use them.....despite my SuSE
> past ;o)
>
> 3) Yep......mp3 play, works pretty much out of the box. So does DiVX.
>
> 4) Try booting on the Gentoo install CD.......then you will know.
>
> 5) That depends on the GUI you choose.....I use KDE, so the full range of
> KDE candy is available.
>
> 6) YES! :-D I love portage.....the config options, the
> tamagotchi'ness...and once I passed the scary bit of compiling my 1st, 2nd,
> and 3rd kernel......it's a doddle.
>
> Also....a hint for you. If you are a 1st time Gentoo installer, try
> instllaing through Knoppix.....it's easier, when you have a working KDE
> environment to your disposal during install, as you can google when things
> turn dodgy.
<SNIP>

So it is not noticeably faster? I always thought it was. Maybe when
people say that it is faster they are refering to it not being so
bloated perhaps? (Am I right in saying that it is just 1 CD?)

Is portage the equivalent of apt in debian? Is there a package
repository where I can fetch apps and auto install them like in debian
and SuSe? How do I get and install security patches and updates?

Can I install via Knoppix on a dual boot machine? My machine also has
XP installed for my wife and when I want to play a game. How do I
start the Gentoo install and will it sort out the bootloader OK?

Compiling the kernel? Is this a requirement??!!!???

Thanks for the help!
Hugh

Hugh Janus wrote:

> <SNIP>
>
>> 1) No...not really. If it is faster, is is only a few %. Not worth
>> changing distro for. However, you are able to set your optimizations as
>> you like.....the cost could be stability.
>>
>> 2) I do not know any GUI tools for setting up hardware etc, but there are
>> tools for portage...ie, upgrade, install, uninstall. There a quite a
>> few....Kentoo, Guitoo, Kportage, etc. I do not use them.....despite my
>> SuSE past ;o)
>>
>> 3) Yep......mp3 play, works pretty much out of the box. So does DiVX.
>>
>> 4) Try booting on the Gentoo install CD.......then you will know.
>>
>> 5) That depends on the GUI you choose.....I use KDE, so the full range of
>> KDE candy is available.
>>
>> 6) YES! :-D I love portage.....the config options, the
>> tamagotchi'ness...and once I passed the scary bit of compiling my 1st,
>> 2nd, and 3rd kernel......it's a doddle.
>>
>> Also....a hint for you. If you are a 1st time Gentoo installer, try
>> instllaing through Knoppix.....it's easier, when you have a working KDE
>> environment to your disposal during install, as you can google when
>> things turn dodgy.
> <SNIP>
>
> So it is not noticeably faster? I always thought it was. Maybe when
> people say that it is faster they are refering to it not being so
> bloated perhaps?

Perhaps. I noticed no speed increase in canging from SuSE to Gentoo, but
noticed Gentoo being faster when upgrading from 2.4 kernel, to 2.6 kernel,
and when switching my KDE to the new split ebuilds.

> (Am I right in saying that it is just 1 CD?)

Yes......but that is just a basic setup...all softwarepackages are on FTP
servers round the world.

> Is portage the equivalent of apt in debian?

Yes.

> Is there a package
> repository where I can fetch apps and auto install them like in debian
> and SuSe?

Yes.....have a look at http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors.xml

> How do I get and install security patches and updates?

I use my commandprompt, like so;

emerge sync && emerge -uDav world

and sometimes this, to remove old tar balls;

rm -rf /var/tmp/portage/*, rm -rf /usr/portage/distfiles/*

> Can I install via Knoppix on a dual boot machine? My machine also has
> XP installed for my wife and when I want to play a game.

I dualboot with Windows 2000, for gaming purposes too. All you need to do,
is bear this in mind, when you set up the partitiontable, and your
bootloader.

For install through Knoppix, read here;

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/altinstall.xml

scroll down to "Knoppix installation".

> How do I
> start the Gentoo install and will it sort out the bootloader OK?

You either boot the Gentoo install CD, or boot Knoppix, or even use your
excisitng SuSE !. You can install Gentoo through any Linux dist that is
able to chroot.

> Compiling the kernel? Is this a requirement??!!!???

No......you can use the Genkernel.

> Thanks for the help!

No problem.........but you might wanna read through;

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml

/Stig
--
* Registered Linux user #291266, with http://counter.li.org.*

Stig Mogensen wrote:

>> 1.) Is it really faster or is that just a myth? My machine is an
>> AMD64 3400 with 1GB of ram.
>> 2.) Is there a similar tool to YaST for installing new packages and
>> configuring the machine? I understand the benefit of compiling from
>> source but, where possible, I would prefer to avoid that and the
>> headaches that come with it!
>> 3.) I assume there are not the MP3 restrictions like with Suse now?
>> 4.) How good is it at detecting hardware and has anyone managed to get
>> a WG311T card, or something with the same chipset, working?
>> 5.) Does it come with loads of delicious eye candy and customisations
>> for KDE which look so cool!!!????!!
>> 6.) Is it worth the change?
>
> I myself went from SuSE to Gentoo 2½ years ago, but is by no means an
> expert. I do not miss YaST or SaX, but enjoy portage very much indeed.
> Also, all the tweaking appeals to me.
>
> I'll try to answer your Q's as follows;
>
> 1) No...not really. If it is faster, is is only a few %. Not worth
> changing distro for. However, you are able to set your optimizations as
> you like.....the cost could be stability.
>
> 2) I do not know any GUI tools for setting up hardware etc, but there are
> tools for portage...ie, upgrade, install, uninstall. There a quite a
> few....Kentoo, Guitoo, Kportage, etc. I do not use them.....despite my
> SuSE past ;o)
>
> 3) Yep......mp3 play, works pretty much out of the box. So does DiVX.
>
> 4) Try booting on the Gentoo install CD.......then you will know.
>
> 5) That depends on the GUI you choose.....I use KDE, so the full range of
> KDE candy is available.
>
> 6) YES! :-D I love portage.....the config options, the
> tamagotchi'ness...and once I passed the scary bit of compiling my 1st,
> 2nd, and 3rd kernel......it's a doddle.
>
> Also....a hint for you. If you are a 1st time Gentoo installer, try
> instllaing through Knoppix.....it's easier, when you have a working KDE
> environment to your disposal during install, as you can google when things
> turn dodgy.
>
> /Stig

I had problems with using Knoppix when they switched to UNIONFS a few
versions ago. I would stick with the Gentoo install disk. It's not that
difficult.

Stig Mogensen has offered us the following clue :

>> 1.) Is it really faster or is that just a myth? My machine is an
>> AMD64 3400 with 1GB of ram.

Probably a myth. I cannot see a difference between my Gentoo and Mandriva.

>> 2.) Is there a similar tool to YaST for installing new packages and
>> configuring the machine? I understand the benefit of compiling from
>> source but, where possible, I would prefer to avoid that and the
>> headaches that come with it!

Installing new packages is very easy. But I compile everything and sometimes
it does not work (rarely). Then you need to find why and you learn a lot.
Problems are solved within 1-2 hours generally, thanks to the very pro
community. Gentoo is imo for people who really want to know their machine
in detail. Very interesting. Learning the details forces you to adopt a
good discipline and teaches you to understand things, not just look from
far away.

>> 3.) I assume there are not the MP3 restrictions like with Suse now?

No restriction, only on dvd which need the "illegal" libdvdcss.

>> 4.) How good is it at detecting hardware and has anyone managed to get
>> a WG311T card, or something with the same chipset, working?

Quite good. I use WG511 without any trouble.

>> 5.) Does it come with loads of delicious eye candy and customisations
>> for KDE which look so cool!!!????!!

This is not a gentoo issue.

>> 6.) Is it worth the change?

I tried a couple of distros and will not abandon Gentoo until I stop beeing
interested to look under the hood. Anyway, Linux desktop without a need for
manual adjustments is not for tomorrow so this is not going to happen any
time soon. The Gentoo community is excellent, this is a sufficient reason
also.

> So it is not noticeably faster? I always thought it was. Maybe when
> people say that it is faster they are refering to it not being so
> bloated perhaps? (Am I right in saying that it is just 1 CD?)

Sure, you can decide what is inside your machine. Maybe some tests show a
faster response, but overall user experience does not show any clear
advantage (Firefox and Open Office are still long to load).

> Is portage the equivalent of apt in debian? Is there a package
> repository where I can fetch apps and auto install them like in debian
> and SuSe? How do I get and install security patches and updates?

Very easy. emerge -upv world to have a look, then emerge -u world.

> Compiling the kernel? Is this a requirement??!!!???

You have a tool named "genkernel" which makes things easy, and even install
the files in /boot and write grub entries for you. Compiling is a good
thing to get the kernel tailored to your machine.

>
> Thanks for the help!
> Hugh

Hugh Janus <my-junk-account@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> So it is not noticeably faster? I always thought it was. Maybe when
> people say that it is faster they are refering to it not being so
> bloated perhaps? (Am I right in saying that it is just 1 CD?)

Not really. The base system is /minimum/ one CD -- two, if you install
pre-built packages. PLUS a few hours of downloading, a few hours of
manual configuration, and a couple of days of compiling. Once /that/ is
done, though, you have a system that's mostly easier to
administer/update than most other distros.

> Is portage the equivalent of apt in debian? Is there a package
> repository where I can fetch apps and auto install them like in debian
> and SuSe? How do I get and install security patches and updates?

Quick description of a "typical" update:

emerge --sync
This pulls down descriptions for all available packages from a
convenient mirror. (There's currently around 23000 packages you can
build.)

emerge --pretend --changelog --update --deep world
This will list all existing packages and their dependencies for which
newer versions or revisions are available, so you can see for yourself
whether it's time for an update.

emerge --update --deep world
This will actually install those packages.

If you want a particular piece of software installed, say "stellarium",
you would do:

emerge stellarium

This will figure out which other packages it depends on, install those
if not already present, and then install your package. By "install"
here, it typically means configuring, compiling and installing, without
you having to do all the steps that compiling yourself from source would
take, except waiting. And waiting some more.

If you didn't like the package, "emerge --unmerge stellarium" will
remove it for you.

> Can I install via Knoppix on a dual boot machine?

Absolutely, if you make it triple-boot.

> My machine also has
> XP installed for my wife and when I want to play a game. How do I
> start the Gentoo install and will it sort out the bootloader OK?

No, it leaves that to be configured manually. As for the "how do I",
there's some excellent installation instructions at www.gentoo.org. I
recommend that you print them out before starting.

> Compiling the kernel? Is this a requirement??!!!???

There is a "genkernel" utility that analyses your system, disregards
that information and then enables everything anyhow, and you end up with
a HUGE kernel with tonnes of modules, just like SuSE and other distros.
So even though you compile the kernel, you don't have to answer lots of
questions, and can look at it like installing rather than compiling
(although it does compile it for you).

Using genkernel is, IMHO, to overlook the strengths of gentoo -- that
you can easily configure to fit /your/ particular system. If you have a
single CPU without hyperthreading or multi-core, disabling
multi-threading will give you a noticable performance increase. If you
don't have SCSI or Bluetooth, you don't have to compile and poll for
those at every boot.
Instead of a 50 MB kernel with an equal amount of modules being pulled
in whether needed or not, you can get a 3 MB kernel that does it all,
quicker, and with the saved memory available for disk caching. This
/does/ improve system speed.

Regards,
--
*Art

Arthur Hagen has offered us the following clue :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a "genkernel" utility that analyses your system, disregards
that information and then enables everything anyhow, and you end up with
a HUGE kernel with tonnes of modules, just like SuSE and other distros.
So even though you compile the kernel, you don't have to answer lots of
questions, and can look at it like installing rather than compiling
(although it does compile it for you).

Using genkernel is, IMHO, to overlook the strengths of gentoo -- that
you can easily configure to fit your particular system. If you have a
single CPU without hyperthreading or multi-core, disabling
multi-threading will give you a noticable performance increase. If you
don't have SCSI or Bluetooth, you don't have to compile and poll for
those at every boot.
Instead of a 50 MB kernel with an equal amount of modules being pulled
in whether needed or not, you can get a 3 MB kernel that does it all,
quicker, and with the saved memory available for disk caching. This
does improve system speed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mmmm, I use genkernel but I don't understand your point. Why should the
kernel be bigger ? Mine is 2,7MB. I select my desired options before
compiling, exactly like you say, modules, features etc. For me, genkernel
is just a facilitating tool for compilation with genkernel --menuconfig
--udev all

Albert <albert@ilestpasla.com> wrote:
>
>> Is portage the equivalent of apt in debian? Is there a package
>> repository where I can fetch apps and auto install them like in
>> debian and SuSe? How do I get and install security patches and
>> updates?
>
> Very easy. emerge -upv world to have a look, then emerge -u world.

Good answer, but wrong. That won't get security updates for packages
that aren't part of "world", like packages that another package depends
on, but which hasn't explicitly been installed by the user.
You'd want:

emerge --update --deep world (or "emerge -uD world" in shorthand)

The "--deep" (-D) will ensure that also packages installed because
something else depend on them are checked.

Also, you can't (unfortunately) get just security updates. You get all
sort of updates, even when there's functionality changes. This is a
flaw with the gentoo portage system, especially for people who want to
run very stable systems.

Regards,
--
*Art