Anyone running 10g in a cluster environment? I'm trying to decide between
AIX or W2K3 for my cluster. Any tips, advice, horror stories, etc..
Appreciated. The DB is mission critical and HA is a mojor concern. The DB
currently runs on a standalone AIX box. Typically, this would be a no
brainer but I've heard that 10g and W2K3 play very well together.

Thanks.

PSRMC

psrmc IWNLCSNTAAWD wrote:
> Anyone running 10g in a cluster environment? I'm trying to decide between
> AIX or W2K3 for my cluster. Any tips, advice, horror stories, etc..
> Appreciated. The DB is mission critical and HA is a mojor concern. The DB
> currently runs on a standalone AIX box. Typically, this would be a no
> brainer but I've heard that 10g and W2K3 play very well together.
>
> Thanks.
>
> PSRMC

By definition, from what you've written, you've ruled out Windows.
Mission critical <> Windows
HA <> Windows
I can't think of a single major player in the RAC space using Windows.
In fact I can't think of a single major player in the Oracle space
running mission critical apps on Windows.

AIX, especially after 5.2 is one of the strongest operating systems
available: Especially for running Oracle 10g RAC. Use ASM to manage
raw devices and you will be trouble free ... though I would strongly
urge you to look at 10gR2 rather than 10gR1. The CRS in 10gR1 was,
how to say this gently, FRAGILE!

But why are you limiting yourself to only considering these two
operating system choices? Why not look at RHEL and OSX/Darwin?
--
Daniel A. Morgan
http://www.psoug.org
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)

"DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message
news:1121920341.126761@yasure...
> psrmc IWNLCSNTAAWD wrote:
>> Anyone running 10g in a cluster environment? I'm trying to decide
>> between AIX or W2K3 for my cluster. Any tips, advice, horror stories,
>> etc.. Appreciated. The DB is mission critical and HA is a mojor
>> concern. The DB currently runs on a standalone AIX box. Typically, this
>> would be a no brainer but I've heard that 10g and W2K3 play very well
>> together.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> PSRMC
>
> By definition, from what you've written, you've ruled out Windows.
> Mission critical <> Windows
> HA <> Windows

That is a bit oldfassion thinking

> I can't think of a single major player in the RAC space using Windows.
> In fact I can't think of a single major player in the Oracle space running
> mission critical apps on Windows.

That migth be a decade ago, not nowadays.
Surely if you do not count your dollars, then AIX would be fine.

They even run 9iR2 RACs with W2K.
Even standalone boxes are used in mission critical apps!

"Jack" <none@mail.com> wrote:


>> By definition, from what you've written, you've ruled out Windows.
>> Mission critical <> Windows
>> HA <> Windows

>That is a bit oldfassion thinking


I have an app here (a newsreader, which I no longer use) which can
crash both W2K Pro SP4 and XP Pro, SP2. This is just a simple app, and
it really messes with windows.


>> I can't think of a single major player in the RAC space using Windows.
>> In fact I can't think of a single major player in the Oracle space running
>> mission critical apps on Windows.

>That migth be a decade ago, not nowadays.
>Surely if you do not count your dollars, then AIX would be fine.

Offhand, what's the difference between HP-UX and W2003 Server? I tried
looking it up on HP's site, but all they have are US contact numbers.
I'll ring them here in Ireland later.


>They even run 9iR2 RACs with W2K.
>Even standalone boxes are used in mission critical apps!


Read what Bruce Schnier has to say about Widoze.


Paul...




--

plinehan __at__ yahoo __dot__ __com__

XP Pro, SP 2,

Oracle, 9.2.0.1.0 (Enterprise Ed.)
Interbase 6.0.1.0;

When asking database related questions, please give other posters
some clues, like operating system, version of db being used and DDL.
The exact text and/or number of error messages is useful (!= "it didn't work!").
Thanks.

Furthermore, as a courtesy to those who spend
time analysing and attempting to help, please
do not top post.

Jack wrote:
> "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message
> news:1121920341.126761@yasure...
>
>>psrmc IWNLCSNTAAWD wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone running 10g in a cluster environment? I'm trying to decide
>>>between AIX or W2K3 for my cluster. Any tips, advice, horror stories,
>>>etc.. Appreciated. The DB is mission critical and HA is a mojor
>>>concern. The DB currently runs on a standalone AIX box. Typically, this
>>>would be a no brainer but I've heard that 10g and W2K3 play very well
>>>together.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>PSRMC
>>
>>By definition, from what you've written, you've ruled out Windows.
>>Mission critical <> Windows
>>HA <> Windows
>
>
> That is a bit oldfassion thinking
>

No it is not - stared at
"Your system was updated recently - a reboot is necessary"
just yesterday; W2003 server.
It's definitively NOT what you do on a HA production server!

--
Regards,
Frank van Bortel

"Frank van Bortel" <frank.van.bortel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dboi15$7r1$4@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
> Jack wrote:
>> "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message
>> news:1121920341.126761@yasure...
>>
>>>psrmc IWNLCSNTAAWD wrote:
>>>
>>>>Anyone running 10g in a cluster environment? I'm trying to decide
>>>>between AIX or W2K3 for my cluster. Any tips, advice, horror stories,
>>>>etc.. Appreciated. The DB is mission critical and HA is a mojor
>>>>concern. The DB currently runs on a standalone AIX box. Typically,
>>>>this
>>>>would be a no brainer but I've heard that 10g and W2K3 play very well
>>>>together.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>PSRMC
>>>
>>>By definition, from what you've written, you've ruled out Windows.
>>>Mission critical <> Windows
>>>HA <> Windows
>>
>>
>> That is a bit oldfassion thinking
>>
>
> No it is not - stared at
> "Your system was updated recently - a reboot is necessary"
> just yesterday; W2003 server.
> It's definitively NOT what you do on a HA production server!
>
> --
> Regards,
> Frank van Bortel

That's because automatic update was activated. Of course, any good Windows
sysadmin would disable this (and lots of other unneeded services) on a
production server. But i'm sure a Windows 2003 server can be a HA server
(even clustered) - as long as it's not installed by some clicks on Next Next
Finish. It just needs to be configured well like any other operating system.

Matthias

> That's because automatic update was activated. Of course, any good
> Windows sysadmin would disable this (and lots of other unneeded
> services) on a production server. But i'm sure a Windows 2003 server
> can be a HA server (even clustered) - as long as it's not installed by
> some clicks on Next Next Finish. It just needs to be configured well
> like any other operating system.
>
> Matthias
>
>
>
Am I correct in assuming that if I use RAC on W2K3 I wouldn't need
Windows Cluster Service?

$$ are not the primary issue in the solution although ease of management
and HA are. The windows engineers in the shop want W2k3 and the Unix
engineers want unix (AIX is our only choice because of a contract we have
with IBM).

I'm ready to do extra research to come to a decision.

So far I'm evaluating:

SAN vs NAS
Fibre Channel vs iSCSI
9i vs 10g
Ability to support multi-location clustering
CPU Overhead per user and query (RAM is just to cheap to concider)

Anyone point me in the the direction of a whitepaper? I'm off to go
google myself.

PSRMC

Jack wrote:
> "DA Morgan" <damorgan@psoug.org> wrote in message
> news:1121920341.126761@yasure...
>
>>psrmc IWNLCSNTAAWD wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone running 10g in a cluster environment? I'm trying to decide
>>>between AIX or W2K3 for my cluster. Any tips, advice, horror stories,
>>>etc.. Appreciated. The DB is mission critical and HA is a mojor
>>>concern. The DB currently runs on a standalone AIX box. Typically, this
>>>would be a no brainer but I've heard that 10g and W2K3 play very well
>>>together.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>PSRMC
>>
>>By definition, from what you've written, you've ruled out Windows.
>>Mission critical <> Windows
>>HA <> Windows
>
>
> That is a bit oldfassion thinking

Not at all. That is reality proven by benchmark after benchmark,
stability test after stability test, and security attack after security
attack.

>>I can't think of a single major player in the RAC space using Windows.
>>In fact I can't think of a single major player in the Oracle space running
>>mission critical apps on Windows.
>
> That migth be a decade ago, not nowadays.

True on 20 July, 2005.

> Surely if you do not count your dollars, then AIX would be fine.

Perhaps you don't understand the purpose of an operating system. We are
talking about this in c.d.o.server. Precisely what is the value of a GUI
sucking up CPU cycles?

> They even run 9iR2 RACs with W2K.

Who is they? No Amazon.com. No FBI. Not your credit card company. Not
numerous banks and financial institutions. Not The Boeing Company. So
who.

> Even standalone boxes are used in mission critical apps!

Do you have a point or are you just a Window user trying to come up
with support to counter DBAs and UNIX SysAdmins who are laughing at
you? My bet ... you have minimal or no UNIX skills and are afraid you
might have to learn something new. Or worse yet ... read a manual.

I repeat what I said before:
Mission critical <> Windows
HA <> Windows

Mission critical BTW means that if you lose it the company files for
bankruptcy. Not that some self-important manager runs around proclaiming
how important their department is.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
http://www.psoug.org
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)

psrmc IWNLCSNTAAWD wrote:

> Am I correct in assuming that if I use RAC on W2K3 I wouldn't need
> Windows Cluster Service?

Not needed and irrelevant.

> $$ are not the primary issue in the solution although ease of management
> and HA are.

Ease of management, if one is competent, clearly favours UNIX.

HA and Windows are wholly incompatible concepts. Something AT&T Wireless
discovered the hard way. Something Bank of America discovered the hard
way. And others too who I am precluded to discuss due to NDA. And please
don't try to pretend the fine people at AT&T or BofA don't know about
firewalls and network security. They had the best that money could buy.

> The windows engineers in the shop want W2k3 and the Unix
> engineers want unix (AIX is our only choice because of a contract we have
> with IBM).

Then AIX 5L it should be.

> I'm ready to do extra research to come to a decision.
>
> So far I'm evaluating:
>
> SAN vs NAS

Probably NAS as the additional cost for SAN rarely is justified by
the additional performance but maybe not in your situation. So basically
"it depends."

> Fibre Channel vs iSCSI

This is not an either-or choice. You are confusing technologies. This
is something your storage vendor, EMC, LSI, NetApp, Apple should
recommend. One thing for sure ... do not buy an IBM Shark.

> 9i vs 10g

10g.

> Ability to support multi-location clustering

Depends on the distance and the transactions. Far more information is
required.

> CPU Overhead per user and query (RAM is just to cheap to concider)

Requires metrics to respond.

> Anyone point me in the the direction of a whitepaper? I'm off to go
> google myself.
>
> PSRMC

I don't think a whitepaper is going to do anything more than give you
a superficial sense that you read someone's opinon. I'd suggest your
firm engage someone with the expertise to help make the decision. And
someone accountable for the success of the project.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
http://www.psoug.org
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)

>> I'm ready to do extra research to come to a decision.
>>
>> So far I'm evaluating:
>>
>> SAN vs NAS
>
> Probably NAS as the additional cost for SAN rarely is justified by
> the additional performance but maybe not in your situation. So basically
> "it depends."
>

I would not take NAS, even they have come better. (perhaps SAN is even
mandatory).

SAN with RAID-10 will be good choice (1MB stribe size, or at least 256kb).
Look that hardware is RAC-certified.

Nowadays Intel-based hardware is relatively cheap.
(If you compare what *nix hardware used to cost)

For reference:
http://h71019.www7.hp.com/ActiveAnsw..._OracleRAC.pdf
http://download.oracle.com/docs/pdf/B10766_08.pdf