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Hi,

Is there anyone has thought about automated DB restoration?
Automated backup I have heard a lot and have it scheduled and running every
night but regarding the restoration, I just
know about it is done by the manual way (copy/restore backup from production
server, recover/apply log, bring up DB, etc...)

If I want copy the production database backups from it's server to my dev
server and have it done automatically, eg execute one script/command (in
Windows 2000 environment), is there any good input on this, like using tools
available in market ?

DB size: 100GB
Oracle EE 8i
Backup with RMAN

Thanks !

"CS" <csjaring@myjaring.net> wrote in message
news:415587ae$1_2@news.tm.net.my...
> Hi,
>
> Is there anyone has thought about automated DB restoration?
> Automated backup I have heard a lot and have it scheduled and running
> every
> night but regarding the restoration, I just
> know about it is done by the manual way (copy/restore backup from
> production
> server, recover/apply log, bring up DB, etc...)
>
> If I want copy the production database backups from it's server to my dev
> server and have it done automatically, eg execute one script/command (in
> Windows 2000 environment), is there any good input on this, like using
> tools
> available in market ?
>
> DB size: 100GB
> Oracle EE 8i
> Backup with RMAN
>
> Thanks !
>
>
>

rman

CS wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is there anyone has thought about automated DB restoration?
> Automated backup I have heard a lot and have it scheduled and running
> every night but regarding the restoration, I just
> know about it is done by the manual way (copy/restore backup from
> production server, recover/apply log, bring up DB, etc...)
>
> If I want copy the production database backups from it's server to my dev
> server and have it done automatically, eg execute one script/command (in
> Windows 2000 environment), is there any good input on this, like using
> tools available in market ?
>
> DB size: 100GB
> Oracle EE 8i
> Backup with RMAN
>
> Thanks !

RMAN does both, and would suit your purposes. But a generic fully automated
restore that covers all recovery situations can be a bit tricky (look up
the definition of restore in the Backup Recovery manual and you'll
understand why I say this.)

You might want to change your tactic a bit and investigate Oracle's Data
Guard. That's designed to accomplish pretty well what you want.

/Hans

CS wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is there anyone has thought about automated DB restoration?

OK, so how would that work, then?

Presumably some daemon or other would magically diagnose precisely what the
problem was on the non-functioning database, ranging from a corrupt block,
to a lost data file, to a user having done a stupid bit of DML. The daemon
would need to be aware that hardware failure renders a restoration to the
original disk somewhat problematic, but would be aware of all the other
spare disks it can use instead. This daemon would also be magically aware
of how much downtime your business can tolerate, and hence come up with
multiple proposals to effect recovery, some with a lot of downtime implied,
some with less. Of course, you're not there to assess these proposals,
because you want this automated, so the daemon puts its suggestions to a
committee of other daemons, who assess each proposal, and finally adopt the
right one.

And you, of course, would trust this mechanism to get it right, every time,
without mangling your precious data, and without causing excessive
downtime?

Is that roughly how it would go?

Because if it is, I think the flaws in the idea are self-evident.

> Automated backup I have heard a lot and have it scheduled and running
> every night

Because backing up means copying a well-defined set of files, and does not
imperil your data, nor your uptime.

> but regarding the restoration, I just
> know about it is done by the manual way (copy/restore backup from
> production server, recover/apply log, bring up DB, etc...)
>
> If I want copy the production database backups from it's server to my dev
> server and have it done automatically, eg execute one script/command (in
> Windows 2000 environment), is there any good input on this, like using
> tools available in market ?

Ah, well, that's a slightly different matter, and there is already an
excellent tool that can do this sort of thing, available for free. It's
called RMAN.

It requires that you do some typing, however, because (as I hope the ironic
description at the start of my reply suggests) the idea of automatically
doing anything on the restore/recovery side of the equation is very, very
dodgy.

Regards
HJR


>
> DB size: 100GB
> Oracle EE 8i
> Backup with RMAN
>
> Thanks !

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:47:06 +1000, "Howard J. Rogers"
<hjr@dizwell.com> wrote:

>It requires that you do some typing, however, because (as I hope the ironic
>description at the start of my reply suggests) the idea of automatically
>doing anything on the restore/recovery side of the equation is very, very
>dodgy.

Yet Oracle 10g, according to Mark Townsend at Oracle OpenWorld, *does*
include automatic backup *and* automatic restoration.


--
Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA

"Howard J. Rogers" <hjr@dizwell.com> wrote in message news:<4155f63f$0$10345$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com. au>...

> And you, of course, would trust this mechanism to get it right, every time,
> without mangling your precious data, and without causing excessive
> downtime?

That is the best description of the entire Windows
(and IBM) user base I've ever heard....


> Is that roughly how it would go?
>
> Because if it is, I think the flaws in the idea are self-evident.

Wanna bet some1 from IBM or M$ will come up with something
along these lines and call it a "competitive advantage to lower
the TCO", or some other twaddle to that effect?
MOF, IIRC some of the Tivoli and HA ancillary options deal
precisely with this...

Sybrand Bakker <sybrandb@hccnet.nl> wrote in message news:<4jjcl0d4uk4847ub3c6vnjt676tu3ju276@4ax.com>. ..
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:47:06 +1000, "Howard J. Rogers"
> <hjr@dizwell.com> wrote:
>
> >It requires that you do some typing, however, because (as I hope the ironic
> >description at the start of my reply suggests) the idea of automatically
> >doing anything on the restore/recovery side of the equation is very, very
> >dodgy.
>
> Yet Oracle 10g, according to Mark Townsend at Oracle OpenWorld, *does*
> include automatic backup *and* automatic restoration.


Automatic backup, as I think I mentioned, is a very different
proposition. The files to be backed up are well-defined, and in a
known location, and it presents no great technical difficulty at all.

But automatic recovery is not on. There are some recovery scenarios
where a degree of automation would not be beyond the wit of Man or,
indeed, of Oracle Corporation. Media failures in an ASM setup, for
example, is probably do-able as an auto-detect and auto-fix issue,
largely because again you know precisely what storage components are
missing and where it can be restored to (somewhere else in the ASM
storage pool). But as a general proposition, 10g can't do automated
recoveries, and I'm pretty sure that Mark wouldn't have said that it
did... because until Oracle invents dbms_mindreading, I can't see how
on Earth you could automate something like the need for an incomplete
recovery.

"Would that be 'until time 9:55:37' or 'until time 9:56:23', Sir?"

It is possible we are talking about different degrees of automation,
however.

Regards
HJR

Howard J. Rogers wrote:

> Sybrand Bakker <sybrandb@hccnet.nl> wrote in message
> news:<4jjcl0d4uk4847ub3c6vnjt676tu3ju276@4ax.com>. ..
>> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:47:06 +1000, "Howard J. Rogers"
>> <hjr@dizwell.com> wrote:
>>
>> >It requires that you do some typing, however, because (as I hope the
>> >ironic description at the start of my reply suggests) the idea of
>> >automatically doing anything on the restore/recovery side of the
>> >equation is very, very dodgy.
>>
>> Yet Oracle 10g, according to Mark Townsend at Oracle OpenWorld, *does*
>> include automatic backup *and* automatic restoration.
>
>
> Automatic backup, as I think I mentioned, is a very different
> proposition. The files to be backed up are well-defined, and in a
> known location, and it presents no great technical difficulty at all.
>
> But automatic recovery is not on. There are some recovery scenarios
> where a degree of automation would not be beyond the wit of Man or,
> indeed, of Oracle Corporation. Media failures in an ASM setup, for
> example, is probably do-able as an auto-detect and auto-fix issue,
> largely because again you know precisely what storage components are
> missing and where it can be restored to (somewhere else in the ASM
> storage pool). But as a general proposition, 10g can't do automated
> recoveries, and I'm pretty sure that Mark wouldn't have said that it
> did... because until Oracle invents dbms_mindreading, I can't see how
> on Earth you could automate something like the need for an incomplete
> recovery.
>
> "Would that be 'until time 9:55:37' or 'until time 9:56:23', Sir?"
>
> It is possible we are talking about different degrees of automation,
> however.
>
> Regards
> HJR

Not having been there, I wonder whether Mark was slicing the difference
between Recovery and Restore?

Restoring missing or corrupt files could be relatively simple. However
recovering database, in all the scenarios possible, is not easy.

Then again, I wonder ... with flashback database ???

/Hans

Hans Forbrich <news.hans@telus.net> wrote in message news:<K907d.130$N%.13@edtnps84>...
> Howard J. Rogers wrote:
>
> > Sybrand Bakker <sybrandb@hccnet.nl> wrote in message
> > news:<4jjcl0d4uk4847ub3c6vnjt676tu3ju276@4ax.com>. ..
> >> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 08:47:06 +1000, "Howard J. Rogers"
> >> <hjr@dizwell.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >It requires that you do some typing, however, because (as I hope the
> >> >ironic description at the start of my reply suggests) the idea of
> >> >automatically doing anything on the restore/recovery side of the
> >> >equation is very, very dodgy.
> >>
> >> Yet Oracle 10g, according to Mark Townsend at Oracle OpenWorld, *does*
> >> include automatic backup *and* automatic restoration.
> >
> >
> > Automatic backup, as I think I mentioned, is a very different
> > proposition. The files to be backed up are well-defined, and in a
> > known location, and it presents no great technical difficulty at all.
> >
> > But automatic recovery is not on. There are some recovery scenarios
> > where a degree of automation would not be beyond the wit of Man or,
> > indeed, of Oracle Corporation. Media failures in an ASM setup, for
> > example, is probably do-able as an auto-detect and auto-fix issue,
> > largely because again you know precisely what storage components are
> > missing and where it can be restored to (somewhere else in the ASM
> > storage pool). But as a general proposition, 10g can't do automated
> > recoveries, and I'm pretty sure that Mark wouldn't have said that it
> > did... because until Oracle invents dbms_mindreading, I can't see how
> > on Earth you could automate something like the need for an incomplete
> > recovery.
> >
> > "Would that be 'until time 9:55:37' or 'until time 9:56:23', Sir?"
> >
> > It is possible we are talking about different degrees of automation,
> > however.
> >
> > Regards
> > HJR
>
> Not having been there, I wonder whether Mark was slicing the difference
> between Recovery and Restore?
>
> Restoring missing or corrupt files could be relatively simple.

Well, maybe... But maybe not. I might prefer to drop my index
tablespace and rebuild all of them rather than recover them. Which
would mean knowing NOT to restore index01.dbf... Only I or an
implausibly fiendish and clever bit of coding on Oracle's part can
make that call, I would have thought.

>However
> recovering database, in all the scenarios possible, is not easy.
>
> Then again, I wonder ... with flashback database ???

You still have to mind-read your way to knowing what point to
flashback to.

Whether Oracle is actually capable of automating anything in this
subject area or not is really not the issue, however. The real issue
is: if it can, it probably shouldn't!!

Regards
HJR

>
> /Hans

Howard J. Rogers wrote:

>
>> Not having been there, I wonder whether Mark was slicing the difference
>> between Recovery and Restore?
>>
>> Restoring missing or corrupt files could be relatively simple.
>
> Well, maybe... But maybe not. I might prefer to drop my index
> tablespace and rebuild all of them rather than recover them. Which
> would mean knowing NOT to restore index01.dbf... Only I or an
> implausibly fiendish and clever bit of coding on Oracle's part can
> make that call, I would have thought.

No doubt.

But the simplistic approach would likely be 'bring it back from the backup'.
And in this day and age, simplistic seems to please those who have learned
to point 'n click to oblivion. After all, why troubleshoot when you can
reboot? (http://www.google.com/search?q=air+traffic+shutdown)

>>However recovering database, in all the scenarios possible, is not easy.
>>
>> Then again, I wonder ... with flashback database ???
>
> You still have to mind-read your way to knowing what point to
> flashback to.

Recover to current and then flashback manually, if desired? Advantage -
it's recovered and ready to flashback by the time you get back from lunch.

>
> Whether Oracle is actually capable of automating anything in this
> subject area or not is really not the issue, however. The real issue
> is: if it can, it probably shouldn't!!

No argument there.

/Hans