On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:09:20 -0600, "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>> As for CA support - well, as I said before, I'm currently evaluating
>> their demo program - and while it works like a charm on SQL Server
>> 2000 or ODBC connections (even Client Access ODBC connections back to
>> the same iSeries box), this little annoying glitch is preventing me
>> from seeing what true native support for iSeries DB2 is like!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> - Bill
>
>If you are evaluating the product with a demo product, and are considering
>purchasing it, then you should contact CA support or a marketing person. Why
>do you think they have a marketing department?
>
>If you a illegal copy of the software, then please say so.
>

Mark - please... CA offers a fully functionly, time-limited demo -
see for yourself

http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Collate...D=33655&ID=260

I see you're a frequent contributor to this group, and that's
commendable. But for this particular topic you've only had two things
to offer:
(1) ERWin may not support iSeries DB2 (it does)
(2) I own an illegal copy and should fess up (I don't).

All I was hoping for was another user of this software (from what I've
been able to gather, ERWin is the most widely used data modelling
tool) that may have encountered the same issue when
reverse-engineering against the same type of system we utilize. To
reply with half-guesses and accusations is not only unhelpful, but
somewhat insulting as well.

I will, however, take your suggestion to place a quick call to the CA
folks (although finding a phone number to call will be a challenge in
and of itself).

Regards,

- bill

"Sulu's Beard" <wilbolite@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>
> Mark - please... CA offers a fully functionly, time-limited demo -
> see for yourself
>
> http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Collate...D=33655&ID=260
>
> I see you're a frequent contributor to this group, and that's
> commendable. But for this particular topic you've only had two things
> to offer:
> (1) ERWin may not support iSeries DB2 (it does)
> (2) I own an illegal copy and should fess up (I don't).
>
> All I was hoping for was another user of this software (from what I've
> been able to gather, ERWin is the most widely used data modelling
> tool) that may have encountered the same issue when
> reverse-engineering against the same type of system we utilize. To
> reply with half-guesses and accusations is not only unhelpful, but
> somewhat insulting as well.
>
> I will, however, take your suggestion to place a quick call to the CA
> folks (although finding a phone number to call will be a challenge in
> and of itself).
>
> Regards,
>
> - bill

I didn't say you had a illegal copy, I was just asking, primarily because I
did not understand why you would not call CA about this problem. I also
didn't say Erwin didn't support DB2 iSeries, but I did ask if you knew for
sure that it does (it is not unreasonable that it would not be supported by
Erwin). I don't know why you distort what I said.

All software companies hire marketing and pre-sales support people to answer
these questions. I am not kidding you. A significant portion of the cost of
software goes toward marketing and pre-sales costs. If you can't get any
pre-sales support before you purchase, you will not get any support after
you purchase.

There is nothing wrong with asking on this forum, but it has already been
established that very few people here use DB2 iSeries, and even fewer use
Erwin with DB2 iSeries.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:27:55 -0600, "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>"Sulu's Beard" <wilbolite@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>
>> Mark - please... CA offers a fully functionly, time-limited demo -
>> see for yourself
>>
>> http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Collate...D=33655&ID=260
>>
>> I see you're a frequent contributor to this group, and that's
>> commendable. But for this particular topic you've only had two things
>> to offer:
>> (1) ERWin may not support iSeries DB2 (it does)
>> (2) I own an illegal copy and should fess up (I don't).
>>
>> All I was hoping for was another user of this software (from what I've
>> been able to gather, ERWin is the most widely used data modelling
>> tool) that may have encountered the same issue when
>> reverse-engineering against the same type of system we utilize. To
>> reply with half-guesses and accusations is not only unhelpful, but
>> somewhat insulting as well.
>>
>> I will, however, take your suggestion to place a quick call to the CA
>> folks (although finding a phone number to call will be a challenge in
>> and of itself).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> - bill
>
>I didn't say you had a illegal copy, I was just asking, primarily because I
>did not understand why you would not call CA about this problem.

At the risk of being troll-like - what's the purpose then of asking
ANY questions in this group? Based on your logic, no questions should
be asked here - all should go to the vendor. I could easily reply
with "Why don't you contact IBM?" "Why don't you contact SPSS" etc..
to all other questions here!

These groups evolved so people can help each other - as getting
through to "marketing" departments can be a trial.

> I also
>didn't say Erwin didn't support DB2 iSeries, but I did ask if you knew for
>sure that it does (it is not unreasonable that it would not be supported by
>Erwin). I don't know why you distort what I said.

What distortion? After I clearly communicated that ERWin does indeed
support iSeries DB2, you still respond with "If you have to do those
things, then Erwin does not support DB2 iSeries."

>
>All software companies hire marketing and pre-sales support people to answer
>these questions. I am not kidding you. A significant portion of the cost of
>software goes toward marketing and pre-sales costs. If you can't get any
>pre-sales support before you purchase, you will not get any support after
>you purchase.
>
>There is nothing wrong with asking on this forum, but it has already been
>established that very few people here use DB2 iSeries, and even fewer use
>Erwin with DB2 iSeries.

Where are the stat's on this? I've archived every message to this
group since June 2003 and there's never been any indication of the
sort! Or is this another made-up fact that you offer as help?

I certainly had no intention of dragging this out - but when the best
advice you offered was "If you a illegal copy of the software, then
please say so" , you came off more insulting than helpful.

"Sulu's Beard" <wilbolite@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>I didn't say you had a illegal copy, I was just asking, primarily because
>>I
>>did not understand why you would not call CA about this problem.
>
> At the risk of being troll-like - what's the purpose then of asking
> ANY questions in this group? Based on your logic, no questions should
> be asked here - all should go to the vendor. I could easily reply
> with "Why don't you contact IBM?" "Why don't you contact SPSS" etc..
> to all other questions here!
>
> These groups evolved so people can help each other - as getting
> through to "marketing" departments can be a trial.
>
By the time I mentioned that, it was fairly clear the answer was probably
not forthcoming from anyone else in this newsgroup. The other people who
were trying to help were just guessing and had no real experience with the
combination of DB2 iSeries and Erwin.

I never meant to imply that there is any problem in asking a question here,
but after the answer is not posted here in a reasonable timeframe, it is not
unreasonable to contact to the vendor. Many vendors have free newsgroup
support. For example, there are several IBM'ers answer questions here.
PowerBuilder (probably Erwin's biggest competitor) has a newsgroup where
someone from their support group (and anyone else who wants to) answers
questions, and they don't care who asks the questions.

>> I also
>>didn't say Erwin didn't support DB2 iSeries, but I did ask if you knew for
>>sure that it does (it is not unreasonable that it would not be supported
>>by
>>Erwin). I don't know why you distort what I said.
>
> What distortion? After I clearly communicated that ERWin does indeed
> support iSeries DB2, you still respond with "If you have to do those
> things, then Erwin does not support DB2 iSeries."
>
The distortion is that you said:

1. I said that it DB2 iSeries was not supported
2. I accused you of not having a valid license.

In truth, I was just asking those things.

>>
>>All software companies hire marketing and pre-sales support people to
>>answer
>>these questions. I am not kidding you. A significant portion of the cost
>>of
>>software goes toward marketing and pre-sales costs. If you can't get any
>>pre-sales support before you purchase, you will not get any support after
>>you purchase.
>>
>>There is nothing wrong with asking on this forum, but it has already been
>>established that very few people here use DB2 iSeries, and even fewer use
>>Erwin with DB2 iSeries.
>
> Where are the stat's on this? I've archived every message to this
> group since June 2003 and there's never been any indication of the
> sort! Or is this another made-up fact that you offer as help?
>
> I certainly had no intention of dragging this out - but when the best
> advice you offered was "If you a illegal copy of the software, then
> please say so" , you came off more insulting than helpful.
>
I have been on this and other DB2 forums for awhile. I don't know how many
questions I have answered on this forum, but I have answered over 1600
questions on a DB2 web-based forum where the number of my posts are kept
track of. I a fairly confident in my assessment that no one who has posted
so far explicitly knows the answer to your question, and that very few
knowledgeable people about DB2 iSeries post here. There are some, but not
many. Many of the DB2 iSeries questions here and elsewhere go unanswered or
people just guess on the answer based on knowledge of other DB2's. I
actually have used DB2/400, although it was awhile ago.

A very large percentage of questions on this newsgroup come from people who
do not have valid DB2 licenses. Many are just using evaluation copies for
their own education. There is nothing wrong with that, except that they
don't have access to IBM support UNLESS they are seriously considering
purchasing DB2 and in that case I am sure that an IBM pre-sales person would
be glad to help them make sure that the function they were most interested
in does indeed work. I would expect the same for CA. I would not expect any
kind of support if one was not already licensed and is not seriously
considering a purchase, which is why I asked. I am sorry if you were
offended.

The best answer I gave you was to try the DB2 ODBC driver included with the
DB2 client. I had similar problems as you did trying to use PowerDesigner
and Visio interfaces to DB2 until I specifically used the IBM DB2 ODBC
driver instead of the MS version.

The next best advice I gave you was to try to contact CA support. Of course
this would probably only work if you had a license or were seriously
contemplating a purchase from them. But who knows, there may be a newsgroup
where you can get Erwin support without directly contacting CA (like
PowerDesigner).

I think ONE reason why there are newsgroups like these is to avoid the
hassle of contacting the vendors. I often find it helpful to go to
newsgroups first then the vendor as a last recourse. We all know that you
need to go through all the hoops to get to the right person to answer your
question. In newsgroups like these, it is more often than not you get to the
right person right away. A complete opposite when you call a vendor. You
need to explain your issue to the first level support, then gets escalated
to a more senior support person, then goes to a more senior person, then
goes to the lab then goes to development. I think the reason Bill wants to
go to the newsgroup first is to see if someone experienced or had seen the
issue he had. And luckily I had some experience with his situation, not
exactly the same but something he get ideas from before going to the last
recourse which is going to the vendor. I would say that newsgroups like
these helps saves time and help you maintain your train of thought. I once
posted a question here on DDL information on the DB2 logs. Had I gone
through IBM for that, it would have taken weeks before I get the answer I
got here in a span of days (not that IBM is slow, it is just a reality). I
was able to get expert advise from Serge Rielau. If I call the IBM helpline
with a question about DDL info on the logs, I will have to explain to the
first, second, third level support person before I can get to experts who
answered my question here.

Do not get me wrong, i am not saying vendors are slow in answering
questions, one may just have to go through the hoops to get to the right
person, and that is just normal. This newsgroup is one way to maybe avoid
going through that.

Thanks,

RdR
"Sulu's Beard" <wilbolite@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0d4b61lfl6f60ukltgo0aafk3dd8tr3kj2@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:27:55 -0600, "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"Sulu's Beard" <wilbolite@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>
> >>
> >> Mark - please... CA offers a fully functionly, time-limited demo -
> >> see for yourself
> >>
> >> http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Collate...D=33655&ID=260
> >>
> >> I see you're a frequent contributor to this group, and that's
> >> commendable. But for this particular topic you've only had two things
> >> to offer:
> >> (1) ERWin may not support iSeries DB2 (it does)
> >> (2) I own an illegal copy and should fess up (I don't).
> >>
> >> All I was hoping for was another user of this software (from what I've
> >> been able to gather, ERWin is the most widely used data modelling
> >> tool) that may have encountered the same issue when
> >> reverse-engineering against the same type of system we utilize. To
> >> reply with half-guesses and accusations is not only unhelpful, but
> >> somewhat insulting as well.
> >>
> >> I will, however, take your suggestion to place a quick call to the CA
> >> folks (although finding a phone number to call will be a challenge in
> >> and of itself).
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> - bill
> >
> >I didn't say you had a illegal copy, I was just asking, primarily
because I
> >did not understand why you would not call CA about this problem.
>
> At the risk of being troll-like - what's the purpose then of asking
> ANY questions in this group? Based on your logic, no questions should
> be asked here - all should go to the vendor. I could easily reply
> with "Why don't you contact IBM?" "Why don't you contact SPSS" etc..
> to all other questions here!
>
> These groups evolved so people can help each other - as getting
> through to "marketing" departments can be a trial.
>
> > I also
> >didn't say Erwin didn't support DB2 iSeries, but I did ask if you knew
for
> >sure that it does (it is not unreasonable that it would not be supported
by
> >Erwin). I don't know why you distort what I said.
>
> What distortion? After I clearly communicated that ERWin does indeed
> support iSeries DB2, you still respond with "If you have to do those
> things, then Erwin does not support DB2 iSeries."
>
> >
> >All software companies hire marketing and pre-sales support people to
answer
> >these questions. I am not kidding you. A significant portion of the cost
of
> >software goes toward marketing and pre-sales costs. If you can't get any
> >pre-sales support before you purchase, you will not get any support after
> >you purchase.
> >
> >There is nothing wrong with asking on this forum, but it has already been
> >established that very few people here use DB2 iSeries, and even fewer use
> >Erwin with DB2 iSeries.
>
> Where are the stat's on this? I've archived every message to this
> group since June 2003 and there's never been any indication of the
> sort! Or is this another made-up fact that you offer as help?
>
> I certainly had no intention of dragging this out - but when the best
> advice you offered was "If you a illegal copy of the software, then
> please say so" , you came off more insulting than helpful.
>

"RdR" <ron@delrosario.ca> wrote in message
news:YPqdney90rsuPvjfRVn-hQ@rogers.com...
>I think ONE reason why there are newsgroups like these is to avoid the
> hassle of contacting the vendors. I often find it helpful to go to
> newsgroups first then the vendor as a last recourse. We all know that you
> need to go through all the hoops to get to the right person to answer your
> question. In newsgroups like these, it is more often than not you get to
> the
> right person right away. A complete opposite when you call a vendor. You
> need to explain your issue to the first level support, then gets escalated
> to a more senior support person, then goes to a more senior person, then
> goes to the lab then goes to development. I think the reason Bill wants to
> go to the newsgroup first is to see if someone experienced or had seen the
> issue he had. And luckily I had some experience with his situation, not
> exactly the same but something he get ideas from before going to the last
> recourse which is going to the vendor. I would say that newsgroups like
> these helps saves time and help you maintain your train of thought. I once
> posted a question here on DDL information on the DB2 logs. Had I gone
> through IBM for that, it would have taken weeks before I get the answer I
> got here in a span of days (not that IBM is slow, it is just a reality). I
> was able to get expert advise from Serge Rielau. If I call the IBM
> helpline
> with a question about DDL info on the logs, I will have to explain to the
> first, second, third level support person before I can get to experts who
> answered my question here.
>
> Do not get me wrong, i am not saying vendors are slow in answering
> questions, one may just have to go through the hoops to get to the right
> person, and that is just normal. This newsgroup is one way to maybe avoid
> going through that.
>
> Thanks,
>
I don't have any problem with someone asking questions here first. But it
was obvious after a short time that no one knew the answer.

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:48:55 -0600, "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>>
>I don't have any problem with someone asking questions here first. But it
>was obvious after a short time that no one knew the answer.
>

Mark - you obviously do have problem. I posted the question on
Friday. By Monday, you're wondering why I just wouldn't call CA for
support on an evaluation copy of their software - and wondered allowed
if I had an illegal copy. I don't know what buttons of yours were
posted by this question - but apparently you think that I should have
been on the phone over the weekend trying to get answers from a
marketing department.

"Sulu's Beard" <wilbolite@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news1dc61p1su8ago6868g7hbd46upj2ll6sf@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:48:55 -0600, "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>
>>I don't have any problem with someone asking questions here first. But it
>>was obvious after a short time that no one knew the answer.
>>
>
> Mark - you obviously do have problem. I posted the question on
> Friday. By Monday, you're wondering why I just wouldn't call CA for
> support on an evaluation copy of their software - and wondered allowed
> if I had an illegal copy. I don't know what buttons of yours were
> posted by this question - but apparently you think that I should have
> been on the phone over the weekend trying to get answers from a
> marketing department.

It is now Wednesday, and no one in this newsgroup has answered the question
to your satisfaction.