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Mainframe Cobol batch programmer; on disability for several years;
hope to re-enter job market in 6 months; need refresher training.
Can't find Bay Area university that offers what I need, so I'm hoping
to find moderately priced software that allow self-training from my
PC.

Running Windows 95, with removeable hard disks, so no problem to
accommodate different operating system, if needed. Need to simulate
mainframe (MVS) environment, so that I can practice:

JCL, Cobol, TSO-ISPF-Rexx, DB2, CICS.

Request (internet) leads, insights, appropriate newsgroups to post to,
miscellaneous references...

================================================== ===================
FOLLOWUP FROM PREVIOUS RESPONSES
================================================== ===================


As suggested, building a mainframe via Hercules is an intriguing
possibility:

www.conmicrocx/hercules/
www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/index.html

1. Currently have old Pentium 166 (128 mb memory), with removeable
hard disks. Plausible to purchase additional 8 gb Eide hard disk,
install Linux on it, and then Hercules on top of it.

Is the processor speed, memory, and hard disk sufficient? The
mainframe will need to accommodate 1 user, with cobol, jcl, ...
Is a dual processor machine needed?

2. Above website(s) suggest that Cobol and Jcl may be routinely
acquired and installed over Hercules. For training purposes, I'll
also need TSO-ISPF-REXX, DB2, CICS, IDCAMS, and (optionally) other
IBM utilities (e.g. IEBGENER). If I purchase legal mainframe
copies of the needed software, will they actually run on my
Pentium 166 (et al) Hercules mainframe?

3. Can Hercules compliant versions of the software/licenses in #2
(above) be legally acquired for moderate prices?


Interesting suggested alternative is to use OS/2 instead of Hercules,
and acquire OS/2 versions of the software in #2 (above) cheaply, from
ebay.

4. Has anyone done this? What hidden pitfalls did you bump into?

5. Same hardware questions as in #1 (above), except with respect to
OS/2, rather than Linux + Hercules?

6. The whole point of my effort is refresher training before I start
working again as a mainframe cobol application programmer (with no
previous CICS experience). Are the OS/2 vs Mainframe differences
in the software in #2 above (especially CICS) mild enough so that
the training will be effective? Will I actually be able to
function as a mainframe CICS programmer? Will I be functional
with mainframe Rexx execs, and the manipulation of mainframe TSO
panels?

"Steve Schooler" <sgschool@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:w2ENb.1406$Kp5.650@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com ...
> Mainframe Cobol batch programmer; on disability for several years;
> hope to re-enter job market in 6 months; need refresher training.
> Can't find Bay Area university that offers what I need, so I'm hoping
> to find moderately priced software that allow self-training from my
> PC.
>
> Running Windows 95, with removeable hard disks, so no problem to
> accommodate different operating system, if needed. Need to simulate
> mainframe (MVS) environment, so that I can practice:
>
> JCL, Cobol, TSO-ISPF-Rexx, DB2, CICS.
>
> Request (internet) leads, insights, appropriate newsgroups to post to,
> miscellaneous references...
>
> ================================================== ===================
> FOLLOWUP FROM PREVIOUS RESPONSES
> ================================================== ===================
>
>
> As suggested, building a mainframe via Hercules is an intriguing
> possibility:
>
> www.conmicrocx/hercules/
> www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/index.html
>
> 1. Currently have old Pentium 166 (128 mb memory), with removeable
> hard disks. Plausible to purchase additional 8 gb Eide hard disk,
> install Linux on it, and then Hercules on top of it.
>
> Is the processor speed, memory, and hard disk sufficient? The
> mainframe will need to accommodate 1 user, with cobol, jcl, ...
> Is a dual processor machine needed?
>
> 2. Above website(s) suggest that Cobol and Jcl may be routinely
> acquired and installed over Hercules. For training purposes, I'll
> also need TSO-ISPF-REXX, DB2, CICS, IDCAMS, and (optionally) other
> IBM utilities (e.g. IEBGENER). If I purchase legal mainframe
> copies of the needed software, will they actually run on my
> Pentium 166 (et al) Hercules mainframe?
>
> 3. Can Hercules compliant versions of the software/licenses in #2
> (above) be legally acquired for moderate prices?
>
>
> Interesting suggested alternative is to use OS/2 instead of Hercules,
> and acquire OS/2 versions of the software in #2 (above) cheaply, from
> ebay.
>
> 4. Has anyone done this? What hidden pitfalls did you bump into?
>
> 5. Same hardware questions as in #1 (above), except with respect to
> OS/2, rather than Linux + Hercules?
>
> 6. The whole point of my effort is refresher training before I start
> working again as a mainframe cobol application programmer (with no
> previous CICS experience). Are the OS/2 vs Mainframe differences
> in the software in #2 above (especially CICS) mild enough so that
> the training will be effective? Will I actually be able to
> function as a mainframe CICS programmer? Will I be functional
> with mainframe Rexx execs, and the manipulation of mainframe TSO
> panels?
>
I am assuming that you have been away from MVS for more than several years,
since that amount of time would not be a hindrance to you knowing what to do
(although it may be a hindrance to you getting a job).

I realize that you may have limited funds, but hardly anyone uses Win 95,
OS/2 or has a PC that underpowered anymore.

I think it would be hard to learn CICS from scratch and compete against
other job applicants in today's job market.. I would try to find a company
or organization where you can volunteer your time or work for minimum wage
to get experience.

I have to agree with Mark's remarks, and add to them. I used to be an avid
OS/2 user but changed to Windows years ago when OS/2 more or less died.
Win95 is pretty ancient too at this point but you shouldn't find later
versions of Windows very difficult to learn if you already know Win95; they
really don't seem that different, at least to me. (I switched from Win95 to
WinXP two years ago and barely noticed it.)

I don't have time to read the links about this Hercules box but I have a
great deal of trouble believing that you could run true mainframe software,
like a copy of DB2 for OS/390, on a PC of any description. And I doubt you
can afford the software even if you could make it run on a PC! For example,
I remember that DB2 for MVS Version 2(!) cost $250,000 and that was 15 years
ago. I have no idea what the current version costs but I don't think you'll
find it inexpensive by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree with Mark and think your best bet would be to get some kind of
internship or entry level job in an MVS shop and see what you can learn
while you're there. I suspect you'll find that the things you knew before
your injury/illness will come back very quickly.

If an internship or entry level job is not in the cards and you have some
money to spend on courses, you can (re)learn everything you've listed in
public courses. IBM, for example, offers education in all of those areas and
should have plenty of courses in the Bay area. That would certainly be a
fast way to learn all those things: a JCL course for example is probably a
week or less and the course would likely have lots of hands-on so that you
can get back up to speed. CICS and DB2 courses would tend to take a bit
longer since you'd probably want to take several courses on each of those
topics. For example, you'd probably want to take DB2 concepts, an SQL
course, and a programming with DB2 course at least, and that's probably two
weeks worth of courses, assuming they haven't changed to much since I last
saw them. Unfortunately, courses like that tend to be expensive and $2000 a
week or more might not be in your budget.

COBOL would be harder to learn; I don't think you'll find that many COBOL
courses at IBM or its competitors because COBOL courses tend to run for many
weeks - 8 weeks when I did it 20 years ago - and that's just not the kind of
course most companies will offer. However, you may have better luck at your
local community college or maybe a business college. If they haven't
switched over entirely to courses for PCs, you may find a COBOL course that
runs for an entire semester and gives you plenty of hands-on for practice.
It might be easier to learn one of the PC versions of COBOL and then right
several programs on your PC. Realia COBOL and MicroFocus COBOL used to be
quite popular about 10 years ago but I don't know if it still is. I think
MicroFocus also has PC versions of CICS. Also, I'm not sure how much the PC
versions differ from mainframe COBOL/CICS; I suspect they're pretty similar
but you should check that out first. You could try researching both
MicroFocus and Realia COBOL and see if they have CICS products as well.

For what it's worth, I did a quick Google search on "COBOL" and "PC" and
found one site that might be perfect for you:
http://www.murach.com/books/cobol/index.htm. They offer a book on Structured
COBOL and software that lets you develop COBOL on a PC for under $100. They
also supply documents telling you how to use the COBOL compiler that they
provide - MicroFocus Personal COBOL - as free downloads. That might be a
very good place to start....

As far as REXX goes, that is somewhat easier than the others. REXX has been
ported to many platforms and is usually very similar on each of those
platforms. I used Regina Rexx (for Windows) a couple of years ago on some
projects and found it very similar to REXX for OS/2 and REXX for MVS. You
can find information about it, including documentation and download links,
at
http://regina-rexx.sourceforge.net/

DB2 is also available on many operating systems so you might be able to
teach yourself a lot about DB2 on your own time. If you read the manuals and
try as many things in them as possible, you might be able to learn a fair
bit without having to set your foot in a classroom. Unfortunately, you won't
find DB2 identical on all platforms - even some of the basic concepts change
somewhat - so you shouldn't assume that proficiency in DB2 for Windows or
DB2 for Linux will necessarily translate into proficiency in DB2 for MVS.
But many employers are using DB2 for Windows or other small platforms now so
your DB2 skills should be of some value regardless of what platform you use.

Lastly, since it has apparently been several years since you have worked,
you may want to consider how much the world of computing has changed in the
last while. If I were you, I would think seriously about learning some newer
technologies too. For instance, I'm a big fan of Java and use it for almost
everything. It's got a fairly steep learning curve at first but, if you can
get "over the hump" you've learned a very powerful language that can do
almost anything but slice bread. Having skills like that should help make
you more employable. If you don't learn any newer skills, you may get stuck
in a dead-end job maintaining old legacy code. Although that can be fun
too - and job security may matter more to you than an exciting job at this
point - it can also be pretty dreary if you're not in the right frame of
mind.

You might try getting some course catalogues from business colleges and
watching job ads in your newspaper to get a feel for what technologies are
"in demand" in your area and then learn at least one of those.

You've got a challenge ahead of you but you *can* learn what you want to
know if you work at it. Good luck to you!

Rhino

"Mark A" <ma@switchboard.net> wrote in message
newseENb.1113$i3.36668@news.uswest.net...
> "Steve Schooler" <sgschool@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:w2ENb.1406$Kp5.650@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com ...
> > Mainframe Cobol batch programmer; on disability for several years;
> > hope to re-enter job market in 6 months; need refresher training.
> > Can't find Bay Area university that offers what I need, so I'm hoping
> > to find moderately priced software that allow self-training from my
> > PC.
> >
> > Running Windows 95, with removeable hard disks, so no problem to
> > accommodate different operating system, if needed. Need to simulate
> > mainframe (MVS) environment, so that I can practice:
> >
> > JCL, Cobol, TSO-ISPF-Rexx, DB2, CICS.
> >
> > Request (internet) leads, insights, appropriate newsgroups to post to,
> > miscellaneous references...
> >
> > ================================================== ===================
> > FOLLOWUP FROM PREVIOUS RESPONSES
> > ================================================== ===================
> >
> >
> > As suggested, building a mainframe via Hercules is an intriguing
> > possibility:
> >
> > www.conmicrocx/hercules/
> > www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/index.html
> >
> > 1. Currently have old Pentium 166 (128 mb memory), with removeable
> > hard disks. Plausible to purchase additional 8 gb Eide hard disk,
> > install Linux on it, and then Hercules on top of it.
> >
> > Is the processor speed, memory, and hard disk sufficient? The
> > mainframe will need to accommodate 1 user, with cobol, jcl, ...
> > Is a dual processor machine needed?
> >
> > 2. Above website(s) suggest that Cobol and Jcl may be routinely
> > acquired and installed over Hercules. For training purposes, I'll
> > also need TSO-ISPF-REXX, DB2, CICS, IDCAMS, and (optionally) other
> > IBM utilities (e.g. IEBGENER). If I purchase legal mainframe
> > copies of the needed software, will they actually run on my
> > Pentium 166 (et al) Hercules mainframe?
> >
> > 3. Can Hercules compliant versions of the software/licenses in #2
> > (above) be legally acquired for moderate prices?
> >
> >
> > Interesting suggested alternative is to use OS/2 instead of Hercules,
> > and acquire OS/2 versions of the software in #2 (above) cheaply, from
> > ebay.
> >
> > 4. Has anyone done this? What hidden pitfalls did you bump into?
> >
> > 5. Same hardware questions as in #1 (above), except with respect to
> > OS/2, rather than Linux + Hercules?
> >
> > 6. The whole point of my effort is refresher training before I start
> > working again as a mainframe cobol application programmer (with no
> > previous CICS experience). Are the OS/2 vs Mainframe differences
> > in the software in #2 above (especially CICS) mild enough so that
> > the training will be effective? Will I actually be able to
> > function as a mainframe CICS programmer? Will I be functional
> > with mainframe Rexx execs, and the manipulation of mainframe TSO
> > panels?
> >
> I am assuming that you have been away from MVS for more than several
years,
> since that amount of time would not be a hindrance to you knowing what to
do
> (although it may be a hindrance to you getting a job).
>
> I realize that you may have limited funds, but hardly anyone uses Win 95,
> OS/2 or has a PC that underpowered anymore.
>
> I think it would be hard to learn CICS from scratch and compete against
> other job applicants in today's job market.. I would try to find a company
> or organization where you can volunteer your time or work for minimum wage
> to get experience.
>
>

"Rhino" <rhino1@NOSPAM.sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<nZFNb.5218$c1.751843@news20.bellglobal.com>. ..
> I have to agree with Mark's remarks, and add to them. I used to be an avid
> OS/2 user but changed to Windows years ago when OS/2 more or less died.
> Win95 is pretty ancient too at this point but you shouldn't find later
> versions of Windows very difficult to learn if you already know Win95; they
> really don't seem that different, at least to me. (I switched from Win95 to
> WinXP two years ago and barely noticed it.)
>
> I don't have time to read the links about this Hercules box but I have a
> great deal of trouble believing that you could run true mainframe software,
> like a copy of DB2 for OS/390, on a PC of any description. And I doubt you
> can afford the software even if you could make it run on a PC! For example,
> I remember that DB2 for MVS Version 2(!) cost $250,000 and that was 15 years
> ago. I have no idea what the current version costs but I don't think you'll
> find it inexpensive by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> I agree with Mark and think your best bet would be to get some kind of
> internship or entry level job in an MVS shop and see what you can learn
> while you're there. I suspect you'll find that the things you knew before
> your injury/illness will come back very quickly.
>
> If an internship or entry level job is not in the cards and you have some
> money to spend on courses, you can (re)learn everything you've listed in
> public courses. IBM, for example, offers education in all of those areas and
> should have plenty of courses in the Bay area. That would certainly be a
> fast way to learn all those things: a JCL course for example is probably a
> week or less and the course would likely have lots of hands-on so that you
> can get back up to speed. CICS and DB2 courses would tend to take a bit
> longer since you'd probably want to take several courses on each of those
> topics. For example, you'd probably want to take DB2 concepts, an SQL
> course, and a programming with DB2 course at least, and that's probably two
> weeks worth of courses, assuming they haven't changed to much since I last
> saw them. Unfortunately, courses like that tend to be expensive and $2000 a
> week or more might not be in your budget.
>
> COBOL would be harder to learn; I don't think you'll find that many COBOL
> courses at IBM or its competitors because COBOL courses tend to run for many
> weeks - 8 weeks when I did it 20 years ago - and that's just not the kind of
> course most companies will offer. However, you may have better luck at your
> local community college or maybe a business college. If they haven't
> switched over entirely to courses for PCs, you may find a COBOL course that
> runs for an entire semester and gives you plenty of hands-on for practice.
> It might be easier to learn one of the PC versions of COBOL and then right
> several programs on your PC. Realia COBOL and MicroFocus COBOL used to be
> quite popular about 10 years ago but I don't know if it still is. I think
> MicroFocus also has PC versions of CICS. Also, I'm not sure how much the PC
> versions differ from mainframe COBOL/CICS; I suspect they're pretty similar
> but you should check that out first. You could try researching both
> MicroFocus and Realia COBOL and see if they have CICS products as well.
>
> For what it's worth, I did a quick Google search on "COBOL" and "PC" and
> found one site that might be perfect for you:
> http://www.murach.com/books/cobol/index.htm. They offer a book on Structured
> COBOL and software that lets you develop COBOL on a PC for under $100. They
> also supply documents telling you how to use the COBOL compiler that they
> provide - MicroFocus Personal COBOL - as free downloads. That might be a
> very good place to start....
>
> As far as REXX goes, that is somewhat easier than the others. REXX has been
> ported to many platforms and is usually very similar on each of those
> platforms. I used Regina Rexx (for Windows) a couple of years ago on some
> projects and found it very similar to REXX for OS/2 and REXX for MVS. You
> can find information about it, including documentation and download links,
> at
> http://regina-rexx.sourceforge.net/
>
> DB2 is also available on many operating systems so you might be able to
> teach yourself a lot about DB2 on your own time. If you read the manuals and
> try as many things in them as possible, you might be able to learn a fair
> bit without having to set your foot in a classroom. Unfortunately, you won't
> find DB2 identical on all platforms - even some of the basic concepts change
> somewhat - so you shouldn't assume that proficiency in DB2 for Windows or
> DB2 for Linux will necessarily translate into proficiency in DB2 for MVS.
> But many employers are using DB2 for Windows or other small platforms now so
> your DB2 skills should be of some value regardless of what platform you use.
>
> Lastly, since it has apparently been several years since you have worked,
> you may want to consider how much the world of computing has changed in the
> last while. If I were you, I would think seriously about learning some newer
> technologies too. For instance, I'm a big fan of Java and use it for almost
> everything. It's got a fairly steep learning curve at first but, if you can
> get "over the hump" you've learned a very powerful language that can do
> almost anything but slice bread. Having skills like that should help make
> you more employable. If you don't learn any newer skills, you may get stuck
> in a dead-end job maintaining old legacy code. Although that can be fun
> too - and job security may matter more to you than an exciting job at this
> point - it can also be pretty dreary if you're not in the right frame of
> mind.
>
> You might try getting some course catalogues from business colleges and
> watching job ads in your newspaper to get a feel for what technologies are
> "in demand" in your area and then learn at least one of those.
>
> You've got a challenge ahead of you but you *can* learn what you want to
> know if you work at it. Good luck to you!
>
> Rhino
>
> "Mark A" <ma@switchboard.net> wrote in message
> newseENb.1113$i3.36668@news.uswest.net...
> > "Steve Schooler" <sgschool@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:w2ENb.1406$Kp5.650@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com ...
> > > Mainframe Cobol batch programmer; on disability for several years;
> > > hope to re-enter job market in 6 months; need refresher training.
> > > Can't find Bay Area university that offers what I need, so I'm hoping
> > > to find moderately priced software that allow self-training from my
> > > PC.
> > >
> > > Running Windows 95, with removeable hard disks, so no problem to
> > > accommodate different operating system, if needed. Need to simulate
> > > mainframe (MVS) environment, so that I can practice:
> > >
> > > JCL, Cobol, TSO-ISPF-Rexx, DB2, CICS.
> > >
> > > Request (internet) leads, insights, appropriate newsgroups to post to,
> > > miscellaneous references...
> > >
> > > ================================================== ===================
> > > FOLLOWUP FROM PREVIOUS RESPONSES
> > > ================================================== ===================
> > >
> > >
> > > As suggested, building a mainframe via Hercules is an intriguing
> > > possibility:
> > >
> > > www.conmicrocx/hercules/
> > > www.bsp-gmbh.com/turnkey/index.html
> > >
> > > 1. Currently have old Pentium 166 (128 mb memory), with removeable
> > > hard disks. Plausible to purchase additional 8 gb Eide hard disk,
> > > install Linux on it, and then Hercules on top of it.
> > >
> > > Is the processor speed, memory, and hard disk sufficient? The
> > > mainframe will need to accommodate 1 user, with cobol, jcl, ...
> > > Is a dual processor machine needed?
> > >
> > > 2. Above website(s) suggest that Cobol and Jcl may be routinely
> > > acquired and installed over Hercules. For training purposes, I'll
> > > also need TSO-ISPF-REXX, DB2, CICS, IDCAMS, and (optionally) other
> > > IBM utilities (e.g. IEBGENER). If I purchase legal mainframe
> > > copies of the needed software, will they actually run on my
> > > Pentium 166 (et al) Hercules mainframe?
> > >
> > > 3. Can Hercules compliant versions of the software/licenses in #2
> > > (above) be legally acquired for moderate prices?
> > >
> > >
> > > Interesting suggested alternative is to use OS/2 instead of Hercules,
> > > and acquire OS/2 versions of the software in #2 (above) cheaply, from
> > > ebay.
> > >
> > > 4. Has anyone done this? What hidden pitfalls did you bump into?
> > >
> > > 5. Same hardware questions as in #1 (above), except with respect to
> > > OS/2, rather than Linux + Hercules?
> > >
> > > 6. The whole point of my effort is refresher training before I start
> > > working again as a mainframe cobol application programmer (with no
> > > previous CICS experience). Are the OS/2 vs Mainframe differences
> > > in the software in #2 above (especially CICS) mild enough so that
> > > the training will be effective? Will I actually be able to
> > > function as a mainframe CICS programmer? Will I be functional
> > > with mainframe Rexx execs, and the manipulation of mainframe TSO
> > > panels?
> > >
> > I am assuming that you have been away from MVS for more than several
> years,
> > since that amount of time would not be a hindrance to you knowing what to
> do
> > (although it may be a hindrance to you getting a job).
> >
> > I realize that you may have limited funds, but hardly anyone uses Win 95,
> > OS/2 or has a PC that underpowered anymore.
> >
> > I think it would be hard to learn CICS from scratch and compete against
> > other job applicants in today's job market.. I would try to find a company
> > or organization where you can volunteer your time or work for minimum wage
> > to get experience.
> >
> >

Hi Steve,
I dont know about Rexx or stuff.. i am just a kid in mainframe arena.
While giving me the training, my company has used 'CA-Realia' and
'CA-Realia for JCL' simulators. We had Windows OS on which the
CA-Realia was installed and we got a fare idea about Cobol and JCL.
See if you can get it downloaded from somewhere and use initially.

Sachin