Trent wrote:

> The Workgroup Edition FP3 released on 08/07/03 seems to problematic. I
> did a fresh install of from CD. Applied the FP. It failed. IBM tech
> support told me that they will release a new patch next week.
>
> There is a FP version for every edition of DB2. It is not convenient
> at all. The files are getting bigger and bigger.

Welcome to Windows Installer. There are two basic options for any
moderately-sized product suite (such as DB2):

1. Delta image (only ship what is changed). Requires the full size of the
delta on your Windows drive as Windows Installer saves a backup copy there
just in case you want to repair your installation.

2. Full install image. Does not use up any extra space in locations you
cannot choose (i.e., you should keep a copy of the image somewhere in case
you want to repair, but it doesn't need to be on the same drive as Windows
itself, nor even the same machine!). Slightly bigger download.

As for it getting bigger and bigger: this is a natural consequence of adding
more and more functionality into DB2 without charging for it.

> As for it getting bigger and bigger: this is a natural consequence of
adding
> more and more functionality into DB2 without charging for it.
Unfortunately, this is not the reason for the massive download sizes of DB2
fixes. The problem is that the fixes are multi-lingual, multi-product file
replacements packages, rather than language and product specific patches. I
keep hoping that IBM will rethink their policy of assuming that everybody
has high-speed internet access, it may be true in U.S., but it isn't over
here.

"Darin McBride" <dmcbride@naboo.to.org.no.spam.for.me> wrote in message
news:sZ8Za.685761$3C2.16056729@news3.calgary.shaw. ca...
> Trent wrote:
>
> > The Workgroup Edition FP3 released on 08/07/03 seems to problematic. I
> > did a fresh install of from CD. Applied the FP. It failed. IBM tech
> > support told me that they will release a new patch next week.
> >
> > There is a FP version for every edition of DB2. It is not convenient
> > at all. The files are getting bigger and bigger.
>
> Welcome to Windows Installer. There are two basic options for any
> moderately-sized product suite (such as DB2):
>
> 1. Delta image (only ship what is changed). Requires the full size of the
> delta on your Windows drive as Windows Installer saves a backup copy there
> just in case you want to repair your installation.
>
> 2. Full install image. Does not use up any extra space in locations you
> cannot choose (i.e., you should keep a copy of the image somewhere in case
> you want to repair, but it doesn't need to be on the same drive as Windows
> itself, nor even the same machine!). Slightly bigger download.
>
> As for it getting bigger and bigger: this is a natural consequence of
adding
> more and more functionality into DB2 without charging for it.

But surely you don't change every single byte in each fixpak? Also, aren't
you still bundling all of the languages into a single fixpak?

Can't you generate a patch rather than a full install image? Products such
as InstallShield Developer make this really easy to do for MSI installs such
as used by DB2 V8.

"Blair Adamache" <badamache@2muchspam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bh8oqq$i6e$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
> The fixpaks are now product specific on Windows. However, they are now
> full install images for the reasons Darin mentioned.
>
> Mark Yudkin wrote:
>
> >>As for it getting bigger and bigger: this is a natural consequence of
> >
> > adding
> >
> >>more and more functionality into DB2 without charging for it.
> >
> > Unfortunately, this is not the reason for the massive download sizes of
DB2
> > fixes. The problem is that the fixes are multi-lingual, multi-product
file
> > replacements packages, rather than language and product specific
patches. I
> > keep hoping that IBM will rethink their policy of assuming that
everybody
> > has high-speed internet access, it may be true in U.S., but it isn't
over
> > here.
> >
> > "Darin McBride" <dmcbride@naboo.to.org.no.spam.for.me> wrote in message
> > news:sZ8Za.685761$3C2.16056729@news3.calgary.shaw. ca...
> >
> >>Trent wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>The Workgroup Edition FP3 released on 08/07/03 seems to problematic. I
> >>>did a fresh install of from CD. Applied the FP. It failed. IBM tech
> >>>support told me that they will release a new patch next week.
> >>>
> >>>There is a FP version for every edition of DB2. It is not convenient
> >>>at all. The files are getting bigger and bigger.
> >>
> >>Welcome to Windows Installer. There are two basic options for any
> >>moderately-sized product suite (such as DB2):
> >>
> >>1. Delta image (only ship what is changed). Requires the full size of
the
> >>delta on your Windows drive as Windows Installer saves a backup copy
there
> >>just in case you want to repair your installation.
> >>
> >>2. Full install image. Does not use up any extra space in locations you
> >>cannot choose (i.e., you should keep a copy of the image somewhere in
case
> >>you want to repair, but it doesn't need to be on the same drive as
Windows
> >>itself, nor even the same machine!). Slightly bigger download.
> >>
> >>As for it getting bigger and bigger: this is a natural consequence of
> >
> > adding
> >
> >>more and more functionality into DB2 without charging for it.
> >
> >
> >
>

We use Installshield for Windows, and did produce delta fixpaks for FP1
and FP2. However, there were many problems which were solved by moving
to complete refresh images:

1. DB2 is functionally rich, and has lots of files in its install image.
The Windows Installer technology does not scale well, and we had many
problems building delta images which were getting progressively worse
with each fixpak.

2. Using a delta consumes a lot of disk space on the machine where the
delta is applied: tt requires space equivalent to the size of the Fixpak
(FP2 is 420 MB) on the Operating System Drive for each fixpack
application, and that space is not freed until the product is
uninstalled. So if FPn and FPn+1 are applied as delta images, and if
each fixpak 500MB, 1 GB will be used on the O/S drive. The reason is
that the Installer has chosen to copy the patch file into a system
directory because it wants the ability to repair and recover in the
event of a problem during installation - with no regard the disk space
consumed. If you have multiple DB2 products installed, the fixpak is
copied to the OS drive multiple times. This means that for customers
who have two DB2 products installed, applying FP2 will require 840 MB on
the O/S drive, even though the fixpack is the exact same for both
products. During the fixpack installation process Windows Installer
copies the patch within the temporary directory, meaning that you must
have another two times the size of the fixpak available in your temp
directory to install a Microsoft Patch.

This behaviour was driving us crazy, so we went with full refresh images.

Mark Yudkin wrote:

> But surely you don't change every single byte in each fixpak? Also, aren't
> you still bundling all of the languages into a single fixpak?
>
> Can't you generate a patch rather than a full install image? Products such
> as InstallShield Developer make this really easy to do for MSI installs such
> as used by DB2 V8.
>
> "Blair Adamache" <badamache@2muchspam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bh8oqq$i6e$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
>
>>The fixpaks are now product specific on Windows. However, they are now
>>full install images for the reasons Darin mentioned.
>>
>>Mark Yudkin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>As for it getting bigger and bigger: this is a natural consequence of
>>>
>>>adding
>>>
>>>
>>>>more and more functionality into DB2 without charging for it.
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, this is not the reason for the massive download sizes of
>
> DB2
>
>>>fixes. The problem is that the fixes are multi-lingual, multi-product
>
> file
>
>>>replacements packages, rather than language and product specific
>
> patches. I
>
>>>keep hoping that IBM will rethink their policy of assuming that
>
> everybody
>
>>>has high-speed internet access, it may be true in U.S., but it isn't
>
> over
>
>>>here.
>>>
>>>"Darin McBride" <dmcbride@naboo.to.org.no.spam.for.me> wrote in message
>>>news:sZ8Za.685761$3C2.16056729@news3.calgary.sh aw.ca...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Trent wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The Workgroup Edition FP3 released on 08/07/03 seems to problematic. I
>>>>>did a fresh install of from CD. Applied the FP. It failed. IBM tech
>>>>>support told me that they will release a new patch next week.
>>>>>
>>>>>There is a FP version for every edition of DB2. It is not convenient
>>>>>at all. The files are getting bigger and bigger.
>>>>
>>>>Welcome to Windows Installer. There are two basic options for any
>>>>moderately-sized product suite (such as DB2):
>>>>
>>>>1. Delta image (only ship what is changed). Requires the full size of
>
> the
>
>>>>delta on your Windows drive as Windows Installer saves a backup copy
>
> there
>
>>>>just in case you want to repair your installation.
>>>>
>>>>2. Full install image. Does not use up any extra space in locations you
>>>>cannot choose (i.e., you should keep a copy of the image somewhere in
>
> case
>
>>>>you want to repair, but it doesn't need to be on the same drive as
>
> Windows
>
>>>>itself, nor even the same machine!). Slightly bigger download.
>>>>
>>>>As for it getting bigger and bigger: this is a natural consequence of
>>>
>>>adding
>>>
>>>
>>>>more and more functionality into DB2 without charging for it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

I wonder how Microsoft solved that one? The Office XP fixpacks are delta
images; they demand the original CD and do not leave massive images behind.
But yes, the default behaviour is the one you mention.

"Blair Adamache" <badamache@2muchspam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bhdfkb$jgm$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
> We use Installshield for Windows, and did produce delta fixpaks for FP1
> and FP2. However, there were many problems which were solved by moving
> to complete refresh images:
>
> 1. DB2 is functionally rich, and has lots of files in its install image.
> The Windows Installer technology does not scale well, and we had many
> problems building delta images which were getting progressively worse
> with each fixpak.
>
> 2. Using a delta consumes a lot of disk space on the machine where the
> delta is applied: tt requires space equivalent to the size of the Fixpak
> (FP2 is 420 MB) on the Operating System Drive for each fixpack
> application, and that space is not freed until the product is
> uninstalled. So if FPn and FPn+1 are applied as delta images, and if
> each fixpak 500MB, 1 GB will be used on the O/S drive. The reason is
> that the Installer has chosen to copy the patch file into a system
> directory because it wants the ability to repair and recover in the
> event of a problem during installation - with no regard the disk space
> consumed. If you have multiple DB2 products installed, the fixpak is
> copied to the OS drive multiple times. This means that for customers
> who have two DB2 products installed, applying FP2 will require 840 MB on
> the O/S drive, even though the fixpack is the exact same for both
> products. During the fixpack installation process Windows Installer
> copies the patch within the temporary directory, meaning that you must
> have another two times the size of the fixpak available in your temp
> directory to install a Microsoft Patch.
>
> This behaviour was driving us crazy, so we went with full refresh images.
>
> Mark Yudkin wrote:
>
> > But surely you don't change every single byte in each fixpak? Also,
aren't
> > you still bundling all of the languages into a single fixpak?
> >
> > Can't you generate a patch rather than a full install image? Products
such
> > as InstallShield Developer make this really easy to do for MSI installs
such
> > as used by DB2 V8.
> >
> > "Blair Adamache" <badamache@2muchspam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:bh8oqq$i6e$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
> >
> >>The fixpaks are now product specific on Windows. However, they are now
> >>full install images for the reasons Darin mentioned.
> >>
> >>Mark Yudkin wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>As for it getting bigger and bigger: this is a natural consequence of
> >>>
> >>>adding
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>more and more functionality into DB2 without charging for it.
> >>>
> >>>Unfortunately, this is not the reason for the massive download sizes of
> >
> > DB2
> >
> >>>fixes. The problem is that the fixes are multi-lingual, multi-product
> >
> > file
> >
> >>>replacements packages, rather than language and product specific
> >
> > patches. I
> >
> >>>keep hoping that IBM will rethink their policy of assuming that
> >
> > everybody
> >
> >>>has high-speed internet access, it may be true in U.S., but it isn't
> >
> > over
> >
> >>>here.
> >>>
> >>>"Darin McBride" <dmcbride@naboo.to.org.no.spam.for.me> wrote in message
> >>>news:sZ8Za.685761$3C2.16056729@news3.calgary.sh aw.ca...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Trent wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>The Workgroup Edition FP3 released on 08/07/03 seems to problematic.
I
> >>>>>did a fresh install of from CD. Applied the FP. It failed. IBM tech
> >>>>>support told me that they will release a new patch next week.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>There is a FP version for every edition of DB2. It is not convenient
> >>>>>at all. The files are getting bigger and bigger.
> >>>>
> >>>>Welcome to Windows Installer. There are two basic options for any
> >>>>moderately-sized product suite (such as DB2):
> >>>>
> >>>>1. Delta image (only ship what is changed). Requires the full size of
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>>delta on your Windows drive as Windows Installer saves a backup copy
> >
> > there
> >
> >>>>just in case you want to repair your installation.
> >>>>
> >>>>2. Full install image. Does not use up any extra space in locations
you
> >>>>cannot choose (i.e., you should keep a copy of the image somewhere in
> >
> > case
> >
> >>>>you want to repair, but it doesn't need to be on the same drive as
> >
> > Windows
> >
> >>>>itself, nor even the same machine!). Slightly bigger download.
> >>>>
> >>>>As for it getting bigger and bigger: this is a natural consequence of
> >>>
> >>>adding
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>more and more functionality into DB2 without charging for it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>

Blair,

"Also, aren't you still bundling all of the languages into a single fixpak?"

Yes, I believe we do this in v8.

vvm@zsavs.ru wrote:

> Blair,
>
> "Also, aren't you still bundling all of the languages into a single fixpak?"

If you were to stop doing this, wouldn't that provide substantial
alleviation to the fixpak image size problem customers using conventional
56k modems are facing? Most of us know what language(s) we're using.

"Blair Adamache" <badamache@2muchspam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bhmkap$74j$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
> Yes, I believe we do this in v8.
>
> vvm@zsavs.ru wrote:
>
> > Blair,
> >
> > "Also, aren't you still bundling all of the languages into a single
fixpak?"
>

True, but it would come at the cost of something else. We also allow
mulitple languages to be installed on Windows now, so splitting
languages may require us to write multiple fixpak CD support into the
software installer.

BTW, all fixpaks can be orered on CD.

Mark Yudkin wrote:

> If you were to stop doing this, wouldn't that provide substantial
> alleviation to the fixpak image size problem customers using conventional
> 56k modems are facing? Most of us know what language(s) we're using.
>
> "Blair Adamache" <badamache@2muchspam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bhmkap$74j$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
>
>>Yes, I believe we do this in v8.
>>
>>vvm@zsavs.ru wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Blair,
>>>
>>>"Also, aren't you still bundling all of the languages into a single
>
> fixpak?"
>
>
>

Over here, it can be quite a struggle to get thee CD, especially if you
don't have a Passport Advantage account. I try to copy the CD from
colleague.

BTW, we had a discussion about multi-lingual support not working. I received
a private mail from a colleague of yours in the lab; I replied by indicating
our failing configuration, and never heard (and it still fails).

"Blair Adamache" <badamache@2muchspam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bhnvl6$6vt$2@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
> True, but it would come at the cost of something else. We also allow
> mulitple languages to be installed on Windows now, so splitting
> languages may require us to write multiple fixpak CD support into the
> software installer.
>
> BTW, all fixpaks can be orered on CD.
>
> Mark Yudkin wrote:
>
> > If you were to stop doing this, wouldn't that provide substantial
> > alleviation to the fixpak image size problem customers using
conventional
> > 56k modems are facing? Most of us know what language(s) we're using.
> >
> > "Blair Adamache" <badamache@2muchspam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:bhmkap$74j$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
> >
> >>Yes, I believe we do this in v8.
> >>
> >>vvm@zsavs.ru wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Blair,
> >>>
> >>>"Also, aren't you still bundling all of the languages into a single
> >
> > fixpak?"
> >
> >
> >
>