SEO

bruce wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
> > Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> writes:
> > > Tom Lane wrote:
> > >> Peter has made it pretty clear that he didn't care for the
> > >> refactorization aspect of that patch.
> >
> > > Peter asked why it was done, a good answer was given, and Peter did not
> > > reply.
> >
> > Au contraire, he's reiterated since then that he didn't like it.
>
> The thread order was: patch, Peter comments, submitter gives reasons,
> patch put in the queue, Peter comments again, I reply that the change is
> not just "refactoring" but is needed based on submitters comments, and
> no reply from Peter:
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql...8/msg00334.php
>
> Without a reply from Peter, I have to assume the patch is valid.

This is also an interesting example for a tracker. If we had one, all
discussion on the patch would be in one place, but I am thinking that
would require all posting to happen in a browser, or somehow have emails
tagged to attach to each item. Is that something that can happen
easily? I don't know. Would the repost of a patch be attached to the
original submission?

--
Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match

On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 03:40:40PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> This is also an interesting example for a tracker. If we had one, all
> discussion on the patch would be in one place, but I am thinking that
> would require all posting to happen in a browser, or somehow have emails
> tagged to attach to each item. Is that something that can happen
> easily? I don't know. Would the repost of a patch be attached to the
> original submission?

In debbugs for example, the bug gets an email address
<bugnumber>@bugs.project.site. Anything sent to that address gets
recorded in the bug. So as long as people hit "reply-to-all" the whole
thread will be archived in the bug.

I assume other bug trackers have a similar feature...

Have a nice day,
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org> http://svana.org/kleptog/
> From each according to his ability. To each according to his ability to litigate.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFE+0oDIB7bNG8LQkwRAlLlAKCJf7JgJroKxBjAet92cH UytypPkACcC8S1
Qd42EhsdlHmabsu7oiYnlmg=
=3vaX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org> writes:

> I assume other bug trackers have a similar feature...

Sadly no. That's precisely why I was pushing debbugs so hard earlier.

The weakest of them will send a content-free email saying *something* happened
to your issue and you have to click a link to find out what. Bugzilla is one
step above that: it includes the latest comment though it doesn't thread
comments and it can't handle replies. RT is intended to be email based but it
requires a fair amount of work to get the transparent behaviour you want.

Generally they make you click a link the email and fill in your comments in a
text widget in a browser. That might be acceptable (not to me personally
but...) when you're talking about requests made in some structured environment
where requests are supposed to go through specific workflow. It'll never fly
if you want it to track all the development discussions. I don't see old
school unix hackers used to discussing things in email switching over to some
web based interface to replace development mailing lists.

--
Gregory Stark
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match

Gregory Stark wrote:
> Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org> writes:
>
>
>> I assume other bug trackers have a similar feature...
>>
>
> Sadly no. That's precisely why I was pushing debbugs so hard earlier.
>
> The weakest of them will send a content-free email saying *something* happened
> to your issue and you have to click a link to find out what. Bugzilla is one
> step above that: it includes the latest comment though it doesn't thread
> comments and it can't handle replies. RT is intended to be email based but it
> requires a fair amount of work to get the transparent behaviour you want.
>
> Generally they make you click a link the email and fill in your comments in a
> text widget in a browser. That might be acceptable (not to me personally
> but...) when you're talking about requests made in some structured environment
> where requests are supposed to go through specific workflow. It'll never fly
> if you want it to track all the development discussions. I don't see old
> school unix hackers used to discussing things in email switching over to some
> web based interface to replace development mailing lists.
>
>

Bz has a contrib module which I believe is supposed to handle replies.
I have not used it and don't know how good it is, but there is nothing
to say we can't make it work if we want to.

Maybe you need to take a new look at bz, instead of retailing out of
date info.

As for remarks about old school unix hackers not liking web interfaces,
I think Tom's recent remarks relating to the 21st century were more than
apposite.

cheers

andrew



---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend

Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes:

> As for remarks about old school unix hackers not liking web interfaces, I
> think Tom's recent remarks relating to the 21st century were more than
> apposite.

I like web interfaces well enough for the things they're good at.
Replacing e-mail is not one of them.

--
greg


---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings

Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes:
> As for remarks about old school unix hackers not liking web interfaces,
> I think Tom's recent remarks relating to the 21st century were more than
> apposite.

I don't see a big problem with using a web interface to search for
information --- they're good at that. If you're thinking that the
hackers community is willing to abandon email as a discussion medium
for a web forum, however, you're going to be sadly disappointed ... and
I don't see how it would help anyway: a pile of text is a pile of text,
no matter where it came from.

The hard part of this problem is finding a convenient way to capture
status data out of the community's conversations. I think when you find
a solution to that, you'll notice that email is not the problem.

regards, tom lane

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Tom Lane wrote:
> Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes:
>> As for remarks about old school unix hackers not liking web interfaces,
>> I think Tom's recent remarks relating to the 21st century were more than
>> apposite.
>
> I don't see a big problem with using a web interface to search for
> information --- they're good at that. If you're thinking that the
> hackers community is willing to abandon email as a discussion medium
> for a web forum, however, you're going to be sadly disappointed ... and
> I don't see how it would help anyway: a pile of text is a pile of text,
> no matter where it came from.

I don't think anyone would expect that (at least I wouldn't). Heck, even
I wouldn't use a web forum.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake



--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/



---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings

Tom Lane wrote:
> Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes:
>
>> As for remarks about old school unix hackers not liking web interfaces,
>> I think Tom's recent remarks relating to the 21st century were more than
>> apposite.
>>
>
> I don't see a big problem with using a web interface to search for
> information --- they're good at that. If you're thinking that the
> hackers community is willing to abandon email as a discussion medium
> for a web forum, however, you're going to be sadly disappointed ... and
> I don't see how it would help anyway: a pile of text is a pile of text,
> no matter where it came from.
>
> The hard part of this problem is finding a convenient way to capture
> status data out of the community's conversations. I think when you find
> a solution to that, you'll notice that email is not the problem.
>
>
>

You have put your finger on the central problem. Email is a wonderful
way of conducting an ongoing conversation and a horrid way of recording
it (mail archives and search engines notwithstanding).

I live by email, but I am also (sometimes painfully) aware of its
limitations.

Anyway, the larger point in my email was that we might well be able to
have an email conversational mode with bugzilla, if indeed it doesn't
already exist.

cheers

andrew

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend

Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
-- Start of PGP signed section.
> On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 03:40:40PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > This is also an interesting example for a tracker. If we had one, all
> > discussion on the patch would be in one place, but I am thinking that
> > would require all posting to happen in a browser, or somehow have emails
> > tagged to attach to each item. Is that something that can happen
> > easily? I don't know. Would the repost of a patch be attached to the
> > original submission?
>
> In debbugs for example, the bug gets an email address
> <bugnumber>@bugs.project.site. Anything sent to that address gets
> recorded in the bug. So as long as people hit "reply-to-all" the whole
> thread will be archived in the bug.
>
> I assume other bug trackers have a similar feature...

Oh, so the bug is tracked by being part of the email reply list. That
is a good idea. Now, how does that get assigned for non-bugs, like
patches? Does any email sent to the lists that doesn't already have a
bug number get one? That might be really valuable.

--
Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match

Gregory Stark wrote:
>
> Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org> writes:
>
> > I assume other bug trackers have a similar feature...
>
> Sadly no. That's precisely why I was pushing debbugs so hard earlier.

Oh. That is bad.

> The weakest of them will send a content-free email saying *something* happened
> to your issue and you have to click a link to find out what. Bugzilla is one
> step above that: it includes the latest comment though it doesn't thread
> comments and it can't handle replies. RT is intended to be email based but it
> requires a fair amount of work to get the transparent behaviour you want.
>
> Generally they make you click a link the email and fill in your comments in a
> text widget in a browser. That might be acceptable (not to me personally
> but...) when you're talking about requests made in some structured environment
> where requests are supposed to go through specific workflow. It'll never fly
> if you want it to track all the development discussions. I don't see old
> school unix hackers used to discussing things in email switching over to some
> web based interface to replace development mailing lists.

Double-ouch. No threads, reply has to be via web browser. I can see
that really killing communication. That bugs email address seemed very
interesting. Could we create something ourselves, and have emails that
don't have a bug id that are sent to the list assigned on?

One problem I have now is that threads are not tracked across months,
and if a new email is started, it doesn't attached to the old threads.
The bug-id might not fix that, but perhaps it would.

Of course one easier fix would be to get our threads to track across
months, but it still doesn't handle cases where new email threads are
started that apply to earlier threads.

--
Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings