Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Mon, 2 May 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2 May 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >>
> >>> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 2 May 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I posted this compromise and no one replied so I thought everyone was OK
> >>>>> with it. It gets it into CVS, but has a separate compile stage to deal
> >>>>> with the recursive dependency problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then what is the point of having it in CVS? Other then to make are tar
> >>>> ball bigger?
> >>>
> >>> So it can be maintained with other PL languages as the internal API
> >>> changes. This is the same reason ecpg is in our CVS because it is tied
> >>> to the grammar.
> >>
> >> Since when? I thought you didn't need the PostgreSQL sources in order to
> >> compile pl/PHP, only the installed headers/libraries ... Joshua, has
> >> something changed, or did I mis-understand that requirement?
> >
> > The issue is that we have had to wack around the existing PL languages
> > for almost every release to make them work with server changes, and
> > being outside our CVS, plPHP isn't getting that whacking.
>
> And the point is, as Tom has pointed out with tsearch2, that even *in*
> CVS, it is a fair amount of work to 'whack' other ppls code ... it
> shouldn't be Tom's responsibility (which is generally what it comes down
> to) to keep someone else's code up to speed with changes in the server ...

When a PL languages is so tied to the changing API that it will only
work for a single major release of PostgreSQL, like ecpg, it is usually
kept in our CVS. This isn't true of odbc, jdbc, or other stuff, and not
even Slony.

--
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Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Mon, 2 May 2005, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> >>>
> >>> The issue is that we have had to wack around the existing PL languages
> >>> for almost every release to make them work with server changes, and
> >>> being outside our CVS, plPHP isn't getting that whacking.
> >>
> >>
> >> And the point is, as Tom has pointed out with tsearch2, that even *in* CVS,
> >> it is a fair amount of work to 'whack' other ppls code ... it shouldn't be
> >> Tom's responsibility (which is generally what it comes down to) to keep
> >> someone else's code up to speed with changes in the server ...
> >
> > Well we try to keep up
>
> I'm not pointing fingers at you either But, you are one of how many
> that try and get 'added to core'? How many things do we have in contrib
> that the only person that does any 'whacking' is Tom? A couple I've seen
> patches go around for, but for a good portion of them, I imagine that they
> are 'dead except that Tom keeps fixing them' ...
>
> Tom's focus shouldn't be making sure that everyone's third party add on
> "still works" during a release cycle, that should be the responsibility of
> the maintainers of those projects, to follow changes and make sure they
> are implemented ...
>
> That is what pgFoundry was setup for ... to give projects the visibiilty
> they would get through the core distribution by making sure they are
> referenced in a central place, but providing the maintainers with direct
> CVS access to make changes to their code in a timely manner .. *shrug*
>

The bottom line is that it is more efficient for one person to adjust
all the PL's at once rather than each PL learning about the changes and
making them.


--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
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On Mon, 2 May 2005, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

>>
>> I'm not pointing fingers at you either But, you are one of how many
>> that try and get 'added to core'? How many things do we have in contrib
>> that the only person that does any 'whacking' is Tom? A couple I've seen
>> patches go around for, but for a good portion of them, I imagine that they
>> are 'dead except that Tom keeps fixing them' ...
>
> In contrib I would bet a lot. I have argued for the removal of TSearch (not
> TSearch2) for example. Also RServ could probably stand to be removed.

rserv was removed long ago ... not sure why tsearch is in there stil
though ...

> If it isn't in core, it is a second class project. Regardless of how we
> all "want" to feel about it.

As you've seen in the note that I sent to you ... my biggest 'beef'
against continually adding things is the download size just keeps growing,
and when someone already has the core installed, having to redownload it
because they've decided to add something like pl/PHP when pl/PHP doesn't
need anything but the headers/libraries that are already installed seems
idiotic at best ... if some method of extending 'make dist' for the
release cycle can be devised so that pl/PHP (and the other pl/'s would be
nice eventually) tar *with* the core .tar.gz *and* a seperate
plphp-<release>.tar.gz file that can be downloaded seperately, my
arguments against will have been negated ...

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Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Mon, 2 May 2005, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> >>
> >> I'm not pointing fingers at you either But, you are one of how many
> >> that try and get 'added to core'? How many things do we have in contrib
> >> that the only person that does any 'whacking' is Tom? A couple I've seen
> >> patches go around for, but for a good portion of them, I imagine that they
> >> are 'dead except that Tom keeps fixing them' ...
> >
> > In contrib I would bet a lot. I have argued for the removal of TSearch (not
> > TSearch2) for example. Also RServ could probably stand to be removed.
>
> rserv was removed long ago ... not sure why tsearch is in there stil
> though ...

Why is dbmirror still there? Can't it be moved to pgfoundry?

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
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On Mon, 2 May 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> Why is dbmirror still there? Can't it be moved to pgfoundry?

Anyone willing to take ownership of it to setup the project itself on
pgfoundry?

----
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Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Mon, 2 May 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
>> Why is dbmirror still there? Can't it be moved to pgfoundry?
>
>
> Anyone willing to take ownership of it to setup the project itself on
> pgfoundry?

I thought it was still maintained?


>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
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Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > On Mon, 2 May 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> >> Why is dbmirror still there? Can't it be moved to pgfoundry?
> >
> >
> > Anyone willing to take ownership of it to setup the project itself on
> > pgfoundry?
>
> I thought it was still maintained?

Right, but it should be moved out of our CVS, I think.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
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Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
>>Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 2 May 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why is dbmirror still there? Can't it be moved to pgfoundry?
>>>
>>>
>>>Anyone willing to take ownership of it to setup the project itself on
>>>pgfoundry?
>>
>>I thought it was still maintained?
>
>
> Right, but it should be moved out of our CVS, I think.

We may as well include the mSQL-interface in the removal process.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake




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On Mon, 2 May 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2 May 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why is dbmirror still there? Can't it be moved to pgfoundry?
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone willing to take ownership of it to setup the project itself on
>>> pgfoundry?
>>
>> I thought it was still maintained?
>
> Right, but it should be moved out of our CVS, I think.

Agreed ... if someone can make the project, I can move the CVS files over
.... does anyone know who is currently maintaining it though?

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Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>>> Anyone willing to take ownership of it to setup the project itself on
>>> pgfoundry?
>>
>> I thought it was still maintained?

> Right, but it should be moved out of our CVS, I think.

Didn't someone offer a rewritten version of dbmirror just this morning?
Maybe that person could be persuaded to run a pgfoundry project.

dbmirror is certainly a fine example of something that doesn't need to
be in the core distro as far as maintenance is concerned. Of course,
it's also not large enough to make much of a difference in tarball size.

regards, tom lane

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