SEO

Hello,

I just wanted to jump in here and follow up on our very quiet (pretty
much non existent) announcement about us rewriting ODBC. Below you will
find the (very high level) overview of our initial plans:

Written from scratch using C against libpq.

Written from scratch to be cross platform with primary targets of:
Win32
Linux
MacOSX

Written with UNICODE/Multibyte support.

Written to support only 8.0 and above.

Support SSL Connections

Support Compressed connections (Mammoth only at this time)

Support Large Objects

Support Bytea

The driver will be released as GPL with commercial licenses available
from Command Prompt, Inc.

Version 1.0 Milestones:

A driver suitable to be considered Alpha
The Alpha driver should have 75% of the feature set of the current
driver that can be downloaded from odbc.postgresql.org.

A driver suitable to be considered Beta
The Beta driver should include 100% of the feature set of the
current driver that can be downloaded from odbc.postgresql.org.
Alpha support for all ODBC 3.0 API compliant functions should be
included.

A driver suitable to be considered Beta 2
The Beta 2 driver should include 100% of the feature set of the
current driver plus all reported bugs fixed. It should include
Beta support for all ODBC 3.0 API compliant functions.

A driver suitable to be considered to be RC1
The RC1 driver should include 100% of the feature set of the
current driver plus all reported bugs fixed. It should include
RC level support for all ODBC 3.0 API compliant functions.

A driver suitable to be considered 1.0.

The 2.0 driver should be ODBC 3.5+ Compliant. The timeline for 2.0
has not been set.

Some features I would like to see mapped to from ODBC to libpq
would be server side prepare and cursors.

Linux
Win32
Solaris - nossl
Solaris - SSL

One outstanding question is should we use libpq? We may want
to implement the new protocol directly instead. What are the benefits
we can get from either?

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
Your PostgreSQL solutions provider, Command Prompt, Inc.
24x7 support - 1.800.492.2240, programming, and consulting
Home of PostgreSQL Replicator, plPHP, plPerlNG and pgPHPToolkit
http://www.commandprompt.com / http://www.postgresql.org

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Support SSL Connections
>
> Support Compressed connections (Mammoth only at this time)
>
> Support Large Objects
>
> Support Bytea
>
> The driver will be released as GPL with commercial licenses available
> from Command Prompt, Inc.

Well, GPL is certainly a minus for a lot of PostgreSQL folks. The
current ODBC driver is LGPL and that seems OK, though not ideal. Seems
we will have to live with two drivers, one GPL and one LGPL.

When you say "commercial licenses", I assume you just mean commercial
support, not non-GPL versions, because if you do that, you can't take
contributions from anyone (unless you want them to sign ownership over
to CP) and you might as well yank it off pgfoundry.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

> Well, GPL is certainly a minus for a lot of PostgreSQL folks. The
> current ODBC driver is LGPL and that seems OK, though not ideal. Seems
> we will have to live with two drivers, one GPL and one LGPL.

We are taking a very similar road as TrollTech with QT on this
particular project. We want to deliver the highest quality driver
possible which means we need to insure a revenue stream from those who
would need to use ODBC in a closed sourced environment.

The driver is still Open Source and still free to those who will be
using or creating software that is GPL compatible.


> When you say "commercial licenses", I assume you just mean commercial
> support, not non-GPL versions, because if you do that,

I do mean non-GPL versions and commercial support. However there isn't
any real commercial support with ODBC. If you correctly code the driver
it will work without the need for support except in the very rare
circumstances.

> you can't take
> contributions from anyone (unless you want them to sign ownership over

This is something that we are still trying to figure out.

> to CP) and you might as well yank it off pgfoundry.

Are you forgetting community mailing lists? Community documentation?
Community discussion of API? Bug reporting? Community support? All the
things that make pgfoundry and the PostgreSQL community great?

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake
Command Prompt, Inc.

--
Your PostgreSQL solutions provider, Command Prompt, Inc.
24x7 support - 1.800.492.2240, programming, and consulting
Home of PostgreSQL Replicator, plPHP, plPerlNG and pgPHPToolkit
http://www.commandprompt.com / http://www.postgresql.org

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> > Well, GPL is certainly a minus for a lot of PostgreSQL folks. The
> > current ODBC driver is LGPL and that seems OK, though not ideal. Seems
> > we will have to live with two drivers, one GPL and one LGPL.
>
> We are taking a very similar road as TrollTech with QT on this
> particular project. We want to deliver the highest quality driver
> possible which means we need to insure a revenue stream from those who
> would need to use ODBC in a closed sourced environment.
>
> The driver is still Open Source and still free to those who will be
> using or creating software that is GPL compatible.

I hear MySQL calling you. Please pick up the phone. :-)

> > When you say "commercial licenses", I assume you just mean commercial
> > support, not non-GPL versions, because if you do that,
>
> I do mean non-GPL versions and commercial support. However there isn't
> any real commercial support with ODBC. If you correctly code the driver
> it will work without the need for support except in the very rare
> circumstances.
>
> > you can't take
> > contributions from anyone (unless you want them to sign ownership over
>
> This is something that we are still trying to figure out.

Nothing to figure out. You have to get signed contracts giving you
rights to the code changes.

> > to CP) and you might as well yank it off pgfoundry.
>
> Are you forgetting community mailing lists? Community documentation?
> Community discussion of API? Bug reporting? Community support? All the
> things that make pgfoundry and the PostgreSQL community great?

Pgfoundry is for community development of software. Yours is not that
so doesn't belong there. The things that make the PostgreSQL community
great are not part of your project, it seems.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?

http://archives.postgresql.org

>>The driver is still Open Source and still free to those who will be
>>using or creating software that is GPL compatible.
>
>
> I hear MySQL calling you. Please pick up the phone. :-)

There is a huge difference between the way TrollTech does it and the
way MySQL does it and you know it.

>>Are you forgetting community mailing lists? Community documentation?
>>Community discussion of API? Bug reporting? Community support? All the
>>things that make pgfoundry and the PostgreSQL community great?
>
>
> Pgfoundry is for community development of software. Yours is not that
> so doesn't belong there. The things that make the PostgreSQL community
> great are not part of your project, it seems.

Opinions vary.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake
Command Prompt, Inc.


>


--
Your PostgreSQL solutions provider, Command Prompt, Inc.
24x7 support - 1.800.492.2240, programming, and consulting
Home of PostgreSQL Replicator, plPHP, plPerlNG and pgPHPToolkit
http://www.commandprompt.com / http://www.postgresql.org

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command
(send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org)

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >>The driver is still Open Source and still free to those who will be
> >>using or creating software that is GPL compatible.
> >
> >
> > I hear MySQL calling you. Please pick up the phone. :-)
>
> There is a huge difference between the way TrollTech does it and the
> way MySQL does it and you know it.

I don't know it. What is the difference?

> >>Are you forgetting community mailing lists? Community documentation?
> >>Community discussion of API? Bug reporting? Community support? All the
> >>things that make pgfoundry and the PostgreSQL community great?
> >
> >
> > Pgfoundry is for community development of software. Yours is not that
> > so doesn't belong there. The things that make the PostgreSQL community
> > great are not part of your project, it seems.
>
> Opinions vary.

Well, when you remove "community development" from the equation, there
isn't much left.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >>Are you forgetting community mailing lists? Community documentation?
> >>Community discussion of API? Bug reporting? Community support? All the
> >>things that make pgfoundry and the PostgreSQL community great?
> >
> >
> > Pgfoundry is for community development of software. Yours is not that
> > so doesn't belong there. The things that make the PostgreSQL community
> > great are not part of your project, it seems.
>
> Opinions vary.

I will propose a vote that any project that doesn't take contributions
from the community (without rights assignments) be removed from our
servers.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command
(send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org)

> I will propose a vote that any project that doesn't take contributions
> from the community (without rights assignments) be removed from our
> servers.

You are obviously welcome to do so.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake
Command Prompt, Inc.


>


--
Your PostgreSQL solutions provider, Command Prompt, Inc.
24x7 support - 1.800.492.2240, programming, and consulting
Home of PostgreSQL Replicator, plPHP, plPerlNG and pgPHPToolkit
http://www.commandprompt.com / http://www.postgresql.org

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?

http://archives.postgresql.org

>>
>>>contributions from anyone (unless you want them to sign ownership over
>>
>>This is something that we are still trying to figure out.
>
>
> Nothing to figure out. You have to get signed contracts giving you
> rights to the code changes.

Possibly but that does not require the assignment of the ownership to
the code in anyway. Nor would we request that someone sign over
ownership of contributed work.

Which really isn't that different than what people do everyday
with PostgreSQL. When I submit something to core I am granting
rights to core to use the submitted code, not only that I am giving the
ability for others to close source the work.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake
Command Prompt, Inc.



--
Your PostgreSQL solutions provider, Command Prompt, Inc.
24x7 support - 1.800.492.2240, programming, and consulting
Home of PostgreSQL Replicator, plPHP, plPerlNG and pgPHPToolkit
http://www.commandprompt.com / http://www.postgresql.org

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Bruce Momjian wrote:

>> Are you forgetting community mailing lists? Community documentation?
>> Community discussion of API? Bug reporting? Community support? All the
>> things that make pgfoundry and the PostgreSQL community great?
>
> Pgfoundry is for community development of software. Yours is not that
> so doesn't belong there. The things that make the PostgreSQL community
> great are not part of your project, it seems.

Huh? I didn't hear Joshua once mention that they would not be accepting
contributions from the community ... nor that it was a closed source
project ... pgFoundry has no restrictions against GPL'd software, so why
exactly doesn't it belong there?

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
joining column's datatypes do not match