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I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns.
First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes
which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global.

I'm not able generate doc from sgml and verify if changes are ok .

Zdenek



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Tom Lane wrote:
> Zdenek Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@Sun.COM> writes:
> > I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns.
> > First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes
> > which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global.
>
> Why is this a good idea? It seems like mere clutter.

What's "global"? A maybe-useful flag would be telling that a table is
shared. Is that it? Mind you, it's not useful to me because I know
which tables are shared, but I guess for someone not so familiar with
the catalogs it could have some use.

The OIDs may be useful to people inspecting pg_depend, for example; but
then, it's foolish not to be using regclass in that case.

Whether a table is "bootstrap" or not doesn't seem useful to me.

--
Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 12:36:11PM -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
> > Zdenek Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@Sun.COM> writes:
> > > I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns.
> > > First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes
> > > which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global.
> >
> > Why is this a good idea? It seems like mere clutter.
>
> What's "global"? A maybe-useful flag would be telling that a table is
> shared. Is that it? Mind you, it's not useful to me because I know
> which tables are shared, but I guess for someone not so familiar with
> the catalogs it could have some use.
>
> The OIDs may be useful to people inspecting pg_depend, for example; but
> then, it's foolish not to be using regclass in that case.
>
> Whether a table is "bootstrap" or not doesn't seem useful to me.

Something that might be handy would be a method to determine if an
object is a system object or not (perhaps what the OP means by
bootstrap). We spent quite some time figuring out how to handle that
when we were working on newsysviews. In that case, we wanted the info
because it's handy to be able to query a view that's not cluttered up
with a bunch of system-defined stuff. Having a way to get a list of only
user-defined functions, for example.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Database Architect jim@nasby.net
512.569.9461 (cell) http://jim.nasby.net

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"Jim C. Nasby" <jim@nasby.net> writes:
> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 12:36:11PM -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>> Whether a table is "bootstrap" or not doesn't seem useful to me.

> Something that might be handy would be a method to determine if an
> object is a system object or not (perhaps what the OP means by
> bootstrap).

No, what the OP meant by bootstrap is "one of the four core
BKI_BOOTSTRAP catalogs, and the reason they're so core is that bootstrap
mode itself doesn't really work till they exist". (I agree with Alvaro
that by the time you get interested in what BKI_BOOTSTRAP does, you
probably don't need to have any hand-holding from catalogs.sgml; you're
already at least an apprentice wizard.)

But ever since 7.3 the convention for identifying system objects has
been pretty well-defined: anything that lives in one of the predefined
schemas. What problem were you having using that approach in
newsysviews?

regards, tom lane

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On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 12:01:06AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> But ever since 7.3 the convention for identifying system objects has
> been pretty well-defined: anything that lives in one of the predefined
> schemas. What problem were you having using that approach in
> newsysviews?

It was just an issue of trawling through pg_dump to confirm that.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Database Architect jim@nasby.net
512.569.9461 (cell) http://jim.nasby.net

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On 2006-09-03, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> But ever since 7.3 the convention for identifying system objects has
> been pretty well-defined: anything that lives in one of the predefined
> schemas. What problem were you having using that approach in
> newsysviews?

Not every kind of object lives in a schema.

--
Andrew, Supernews
http://www.supernews.com - individual and corporate NNTP services

Tom Lane napsal(a):
> Zdenek Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@Sun.COM> writes:
>> I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns.
>> First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes
>> which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global.
>
> Why is this a good idea? It seems like mere clutter.
>

I'm working on pg_upgrade and these information are important for me and
I think that They should be interest some else.
You can easy determine the file related to if you know the OID.
Specially when database is shutdown is good to have some information
source. If catalog table is global/share or local is very important and
it is not mentioned anywhere. If it is created with oid or bootstrap it
is not important for standard purpose, it is only for fullness.

I know that people who hacking postgres ten years know this, however it
is internals chapter and for newbies it should be useful. And by the way
it is documentation and this is completion of information. You can say
why we have page layout there because it is described in the source code
and so on...

Zdenek

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Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
>> Zdenek Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@Sun.COM> writes:
>>> I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns.
>>> First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes
>>> which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global.
>> Why is this a good idea? It seems like mere clutter.
>
> What's "global"? A maybe-useful flag would be telling that a table is
> shared. Is that it? Mind you, it's not useful to me because I know
> which tables are shared, but I guess for someone not so familiar with
> the catalogs it could have some use.

Global means share table stored in global directory :-). Ok I change it.

Thanks for comment Zdenek


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Zdenek Kotala wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera wrote:

>> What's "global"? A maybe-useful flag would be telling that a table is
>> shared. Is that it? Mind you, it's not useful to me because I know
>> which tables are shared, but I guess for someone not so familiar with
>> the catalogs it could have some use.
>
> Global means share table stored in global directory :-). Ok I change it.
>

There is new version of catalogs overview patch. This version add only
one column into overview table which contains Oid/Filename for each
catalog table. Oid information is important if someone need make
relation with filename on disk and related catalog table.
In this column shared table are marked as well. Other information like
bootstrap and with-oids are really useless and they is not mentioned.


Zdenek


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Zdenek Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@Sun.COM> writes:
> There is new version of catalogs overview patch. This version add only
> one column into overview table which contains Oid/Filename for each
> catalog table. Oid information is important if someone need make
> relation with filename on disk and related catalog table.

I still say this is just confusing clutter. The proposed patch even
goes so far as to give the OID pride of place as the most important
item you could possibly want to know about a catalog, which is surely
silly.

People who actually want to know this information can look into the
pg_class catalog, which has the advantages of being complete (eg, it
covers indexes too), guaranteed up-to-date, and easily program-readable.
I really do not see the value of putting it in the sgml docs.

regards, tom lane

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