Bruce Momjian wrote:

> If you type 'help' it just repeats the startup banner suggestion:
>
> test=> help
>
> You are using psql, the command-line interface to PostgreSQL.
> Type \? for help.

I think we wanted to have more information in 'help', not less. Making
it just repeat the startup info is not very helpful.

--
Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

--
Sent via pgsql-patches mailing list (pgsql-patches@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-patches

Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > If you type 'help' it just repeats the startup banner suggestion:
> >
> > test=> help
> >
> > You are using psql, the command-line interface to PostgreSQL.
> > Type \? for help.
>
> I think we wanted to have more information in 'help', not less. Making
> it just repeat the startup info is not very helpful.

I thought about that, but aren't we just repeating the top of \?. Is
that helpful? Should we just display \?.

I know we decided not to do that, but I am trying to figure out what the
goal if 'help' is? To display the most frequently-used help commands?
Aren't they at the top of \?.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

--
Sent via pgsql-patches mailing list (pgsql-patches@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-patches

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>
>>> My question is whether we agreed that suggesting "help" as the best way
>>> to get help was what we agreed upon? If we did, I forgot. I thought
>>> the 'help' ideas was just for people who forgot the help commands.
>> Please review the previous discussion:
>>
>> http://archives.postgresql.org/messa...%40greg-laptop
>
> OK, I just read the thread and saw no one say we should be promoting
> _only_ 'help' in the startup banner. Where is that email discussion?
>

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql...4/msg01476.php

And most specifically:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql...4/msg01376.php

Joshua D. Drake

--
Sent via pgsql-patches mailing list (pgsql-patches@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-patches

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> >> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >>
> >>> My question is whether we agreed that suggesting "help" as the best way
> >>> to get help was what we agreed upon? If we did, I forgot. I thought
> >>> the 'help' ideas was just for people who forgot the help commands.
> >> Please review the previous discussion:
> >>
> >> http://archives.postgresql.org/messa...%40greg-laptop
> >
> > OK, I just read the thread and saw no one say we should be promoting
> > _only_ 'help' in the startup banner. Where is that email discussion?
> >
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql...4/msg01476.php
>
> And most specifically:
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql...4/msg01376.php

Ah, OK. I had forgotten. Here is the new output:

$ sql test
psql (8.4devel) Type "help" for help.

test=> help

You are using psql, the command-line interface to PostgreSQL.
\h or \help for SQL help
\? for psql help
\q to quit psql

\copyright to view the copyright

test=> \?
General
\copyright show PostgreSQL usage and distribution terms
\g [FILE] or ; send query buffer to server (and results to file or |pipe)
\h [NAME] help on syntax of SQL commands, * for all commands
\q quit psql

Query Buffer
\e [FILE] edit the query buffer (or file) with external editor
...

I moved '\g' up into the "General" section rather than make it a
single-entry section.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

--
Sent via pgsql-patches mailing list (pgsql-patches@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-patches

Bruce Momjian wrote:

>
> test=> \?
> General
> \copyright show PostgreSQL usage and distribution terms
> \g [FILE] or ; send query buffer to server (and results to file or |pipe)
> \h [NAME] help on syntax of SQL commands, * for all commands
> \q quit psql
>
> Query Buffer
> \e [FILE] edit the query buffer (or file) with external editor
> ...
>
> I moved '\g' up into the "General" section rather than make it a
> single-entry section.

"send query buffer to server means nothing to a newbie". You execute
queries, you don't send buffers (from a user perspective).

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


--
Sent via pgsql-patches mailing list (pgsql-patches@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-patches

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> >
> > test=> \?
> > General
> > \copyright show PostgreSQL usage and distribution terms
> > \g [FILE] or ; send query buffer to server (and results to file or |pipe)
> > \h [NAME] help on syntax of SQL commands, * for all commands
> > \q quit psql
> >
> > Query Buffer
> > \e [FILE] edit the query buffer (or file) with external editor
> > ...
> >
> > I moved '\g' up into the "General" section rather than make it a
> > single-entry section.
>
> "send query buffer to server means nothing to a newbie". You execute
> queries, you don't send buffers (from a user perspective).

Yep, good, updated:

General
\copyright show PostgreSQL usage and distribution terms
\g [FILE] or ; execute query (and send results to file or |pipe)
\h [NAME] help on syntax of SQL commands, * for all commands
\q quit psql


--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

--
Sent via pgsql-patches mailing list (pgsql-patches@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-patches

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Bruce Momjian wrote:

>>> I moved '\g' up into the "General" section rather than make it a
>>> single-entry section.
>> "send query buffer to server means nothing to a newbie". You execute
>> queries, you don't send buffers (from a user perspective).
>
> Yep, good, updated:
>
> General
> \copyright show PostgreSQL usage and distribution terms
> \g [FILE] or ; execute query (and send results to file or |pipe)
> \h [NAME] help on syntax of SQL commands, * for all commands
> \q quit psql
>
>

Cool.

Joshua D. Drake

--
Sent via pgsql-patches mailing list (pgsql-patches@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-patches

Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> writes:
> Ah, OK. I had forgotten. Here is the new output:

> $ sql test
> psql (8.4devel) Type "help" for help.

> test=> help

You are being unreasonably cryptic here. What happens when there
is optional output --- ie, version mismatch warning and/or SSL info?

regards, tom lane

--
Sent via pgsql-patches mailing list (pgsql-patches@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-patches

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> O.k. I am not trying to start an argument here but... I already sent 6
> revisions of this patch that received comments and had thorough review
> via Alvaro. I even took into account Tom's original comments from the
> previous thread.
>
> This much effort on something so simple makes it not worth the effort
> in the first place.
>
>

Welcome to UI development. There is always *far* more argument of minor
matters of appearance than over anything else, in my experience.

cheers

andrew

--
Sent via pgsql-patches mailing list (pgsql-patches@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-patches

On Thu, 15 May 2008 11:46:41 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:

> > Bruce with respect the only useful thing I have seen you do to the
> > patch in all this wrangling is realign the \? General options and
> > frankly even that is suspect in my opinion. Can we either throw it
> > away and say, "Nice try JD" or just commit the thing.
>
> Your patch is getting the same review any other patch would have. If
> you want someone else to apply it I will stop working on it.

I am not asking you to not review the patch. I am asking you to be
productive in doing so. Your review of this patch is basically, "Even
though there were two very long threads with several (on the greater
side of several) different people contributing feedback, I think I know
better".

That behavior is frustrating, especially when I took an extreme amount
of effort to address all concerns ahead of the actual commit fest. I
wanted to make sure the patch would be easy to review and easy to
commit. If I thought I was going to have to have the argument all over
again, I just would have left the first submission as it was and then
we could have burned all the time during commit fest only.

Now Alvaro, Tom and I are all having the same discussion all over again
but this time with Bruce. It makes no sense.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFILF6nATb/zqfZUUQRApwGAJ9iVvcVp45RHwgv7TgOsoBkDureAQCfdqUL
CUU/7FEtXGObXnrftOWVrVg=
=7fyb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----