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Shoaib Burq wrote:
> UNSUBSCRIBE

To unsubscribe:

List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:majordomo@postgresql.org?body=unsub%20pgsq l-performance>


Email admins - Could we add this above or below the random tips that get
appended to every email ?

--
Postgresql & php tutorials
http://www.designmagick.com/

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Chris <dmagick@gmail.com> writes:
> Email admins - Could we add this above or below the random tips that get
> appended to every email ?

You mean like these headers that already get added to every list
message (these copied-and-pasted from your own message):

List-help: <mailto:majordomo@postgresql.org?body=help>
List-owner: <mailtogsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org>
List-subscribe: <mailto:majordomo@postgresql.org?body=sub%20pgsq l-performance>
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:majordomo@postgresql.org?body=unsub%20pgsq l-performance>

Plus there are at least two of the "random tips" that deal with how to
unsubscribe. My feeling is that the people who can't figure this out
still won't figure it out, no matter how thick the cluebat we swing at
them :-(

Maybe the real problem is at the other end of the process, ie we should
require some evidence of a greater-than-room-temp IQ to subscribe in the
first place?

regards, tom lane

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Tom Lane wrote:
> Chris <dmagick@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>Email admins - Could we add this above or below the random tips that get
>>appended to every email ?
>
>
> You mean like these headers that already get added to every list
> message (these copied-and-pasted from your own message):

The headers aren't the first place you'd go looking for such info.. once
you know they are there it's ok.

> Maybe the real problem is at the other end of the process, ie we should
> require some evidence of a greater-than-room-temp IQ to subscribe in the
> first place?

Maybe The php-general list has

To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

at the bottom of every email, and there are still random unsubscribe
requests..

Ah well

--
Postgresql & php tutorials
http://www.designmagick.com/

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Chris <dmagick@gmail.com> writes:
> Tom Lane wrote:
>> Maybe the real problem is at the other end of the process, ie we should
>> require some evidence of a greater-than-room-temp IQ to subscribe in the
>> first place?

> Maybe The php-general list has

> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

> at the bottom of every email, and there are still random unsubscribe
> requests..

That's depressing, indeed :-(

I'm not against spending a little bandwidth to provide unsub
instructions, but somehow I can't see putting an 8x10 color glossy
photograph with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back [1]
of every list message to do it.

regards, tom lane

[1] http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/alicesre.htm

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On May 10, 2006, at 14:42 , Tom Lane wrote:

> Chris <dmagick@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Maybe The php-general list has
>
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>> at the bottom of every email, and there are still random unsubscribe
>> requests..

That will *always* happen. Just human nature and the numbers of
subscribers. However, a one-liner that either points to the webpage
for unsubscribing (probably easiest) or a brief description on how to
unsubscribe (To unsubscribe, send an email to
majordomo@postgresql.org with body "unsub pgsql-performance" (without
quotes)) may intercept a few more. Is there a way to configure
Majordomo to make even easier to unsubscribe? Just sending to pgsql-
performance-unsubscribe@postgresql.org or some such? I've seen other
mailing lists that do this. Requiring a specific command (what's the
command? in the subject or the body?) is one more place a person can
make a mistake. (I've recently switched mail accounts and unsubbed/
subbed from the lists I'm on. This latter style does make it a lot
easier.)

(And are there mail readers out there that can pick those subscribe/
unsubscribe headers from the list emails? Now *that'd* be sweet.)

Michael Glaesemann
grzm seespotcode net




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Michael Glaesemann <grzm@seespotcode.net> writes:
> (And are there mail readers out there that can pick those subscribe/
> unsubscribe headers from the list emails? Now *that'd* be sweet.)

Well, in my fairly ancient copy of exmh, any message with such headers
causes an additional menu to appear:

List...
help
unsubscribe
owner
subscribe
archive
id
post

Clicking on any of these takes you to the webpage referenced by the header.
(It looks like it's just generating menu entries for whatever "List-foo"
headers it finds; the behavior isn't real helpful for headers that don't
contain URLs, but most of these do.)

Whether there's anything mass-market that knows about these headers,
I dunno, but it's not like the spec hasn't been out there plenty long
enough:
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2369.txt

regards, tom lane

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On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 01:15:11 -0400,
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>
> Maybe the real problem is at the other end of the process, ie we should
> require some evidence of a greater-than-room-temp IQ to subscribe in the
> first place?

I suspect it is more lazyiness that smarts. That had to at least figure out
how to respond to the confirm message in the first place in order to get
subscribed.
My theory is that they don't want to take the trouble to figure out how to
unsubscribe when they (think that they) can just send a message to the list
(not even the admin) asking to be unsubscribed and it will (well actually won't
on these lists) happen.

Maybe posts with "unsubscribe" in the subject could be held for moderation
and/or get an automated reply with instructions for unsubscribing.

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On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 11:10:37AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> Michael Glaesemann <grzm@seespotcode.net> writes:
> > (And are there mail readers out there that can pick those subscribe/
> > unsubscribe headers from the list emails? Now *that'd* be sweet.)
>
> Well, in my fairly ancient copy of exmh, any message with such headers
> causes an additional menu to appear:

Based on the constantly broken threading in the lists, I'd bet that less
than 20% of posters use something more sophisticated than MS LookOut!,
and I'm sure that the stats for subscribers are far worse.

Does majordomo have an option to automagically handle such posts that
are sent to the post address instead of the admin address? I know
mailman can do that...
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461

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On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 01:10:51PM -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 01:15:11 -0400,
> Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe the real problem is at the other end of the process, ie we should
> > require some evidence of a greater-than-room-temp IQ to subscribe in the
> > first place?
>
> I suspect it is more lazyiness that smarts. That had to at least figure out
> how to respond to the confirm message in the first place in order to get
> subscribed.
> My theory is that they don't want to take the trouble to figure out how to
> unsubscribe when they (think that they) can just send a message to the list
> (not even the admin) asking to be unsubscribed and it will (well actually won't
> on these lists) happen.

The confirm email has a directly-clickable link, or you can just reply
to it. From that standpoint, it's substantially easier and simpler than
unsubscribing is...
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461

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