A potential customer has asked me to provide an estimate of how long it will
take to migrate their 4GL suite running on Informix "to Oracle".

(I'm reminded here of Obnoxio's post of a while ago ridiculing another
rather vague question: "I have a piece of string in my pocket. How long is
it? It's red by the way ...")

Seriously, though, what sort of things should we be asking beyond these?:

1. Complexity of schema (what sort of things, other than serial, are going
to be difficult to convert?)
2. Number of lines of 4GL
3. Number of stored procedures and triggers
4. Total number of tables
5 Volume of data
6. Availability of original programmers/BAs
7. Quality of documentation

Assuming they don't want to re-write their app, they have to use a
third-party "universal" compiler like 4Js or Querix (or of course Websphere
EGL, if they've the time to kill). Any other options?

All (constructive) comments gratefully received.

thank you.
Capt. P

"Captain Pedantic" <theharlequin36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c1nda4$1k5p2g$1@ID-162943.news.uni-berlin.de...
| A potential customer has asked me to provide an estimate of how long it
will
| take to migrate their 4GL suite running on Informix "to Oracle".
|
| (I'm reminded here of Obnoxio's post of a while ago ridiculing another
| rather vague question: "I have a piece of string in my pocket. How long
is
| it? It's red by the way ...")
|
| Seriously, though, what sort of things should we be asking beyond these?:
|
| 1. Complexity of schema (what sort of things, other than serial, are going
| to be difficult to convert?)
| 2. Number of lines of 4GL
| 3. Number of stored procedures and triggers
| 4. Total number of tables
| 5 Volume of data
| 6. Availability of original programmers/BAs
| 7. Quality of documentation
|
| Assuming they don't want to re-write their app, they have to use a
| third-party "universal" compiler like 4Js or Querix (or of course
Websphere
| EGL, if they've the time to kill). Any other options?
|
| All (constructive) comments gratefully received.
|
| thank you.
| Capt. P
|
|

target platform?
essential business functionality? -- most 'migrations' need to fix badly
implemented logic
quality of original design? -- how many kludges in the code?
quality of data? -- how much cleaning will be required to move it to a
normalized schema
how old is the app and what has happened to the business since then?
what are users currently doing with the app?
what are they doing to work-around its limitations?
what goals were never met with the original app that could be achieved with
the 'migration'?
what type of cutover period is anticipated? how will it be managed?

i really don't believe in 'migrating' an application without good analysis
of the current state (health, usability, correctness) of the application and
data, and then coming up with a strategy for balancing redesign, repair, and
redeployment -- usually the same (or perhaps less) expense that is involved
in attempting a technology migration will provide a more correct application

if possible, first give them an estimate for 'getting the string out of
their pocket'

;-{ mcs

What sort of test enviroment does the customer have?
To do a successful migration of any sorts teh customer needs an
efficient means to do functional verification of migrated code (in an
iterative, repeatable fashion). As well as a means to verify performance
in a repeatable fashion.
I've just gone through hell and back on a migration where the first was
spotty and performance testing happened only on the production system.
If you get involved make sure it's clear how corectness and performance
are defined, so you have a clear target for disengagement

Cheers
Serge
--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab

Captain Pedantic wrote:

> A potential customer has asked me to provide an estimate of how long it
> will take to migrate their 4GL suite running on Informix "to Oracle".
>
> (I'm reminded here of Obnoxio's post of a while ago ridiculing another
> rather vague question: "I have a piece of string in my pocket. How long
> is
> it? It's red by the way ...")
>
> Seriously, though, what sort of things should we be asking beyond these?:
>
> 1. Complexity of schema (what sort of things, other than serial, are going
> to be difficult to convert?)
> 2. Number of lines of 4GL
> 3. Number of stored procedures and triggers
> 4. Total number of tables
> 5 Volume of data
> 6. Availability of original programmers/BAs
> 7. Quality of documentation
>
> Assuming they don't want to re-write their app, they have to use a
> third-party "universal" compiler like 4Js or Querix (or of course
> Websphere
> EGL, if they've the time to kill). Any other options?

Querix would probably be the best bet. Many years ago, someone I knew did it
and raved about the ease of the migration and performance improvements, but
then of course, they did a massive hardware upgrade at the same time. )

> All (constructive) comments gratefully received.

--
"C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule"
- Coluche

Captain Pedantic wrote:

> A potential customer has asked me to provide an estimate of how long it will
> take to migrate their 4GL suite running on Informix "to Oracle".
>
> (I'm reminded here of Obnoxio's post of a while ago ridiculing another
> rather vague question: "I have a piece of string in my pocket. How long is
> it? It's red by the way ...")
>
> Seriously, though, what sort of things should we be asking beyond these?:
>
> 1. Complexity of schema (what sort of things, other than serial, are going
> to be difficult to convert?)
> 2. Number of lines of 4GL
> 3. Number of stored procedures and triggers
> 4. Total number of tables
> 5 Volume of data
> 6. Availability of original programmers/BAs
> 7. Quality of documentation
>
> Assuming they don't want to re-write their app, they have to use a
> third-party "universal" compiler like 4Js or Querix (or of course Websphere
> EGL, if they've the time to kill). Any other options?
>
> All (constructive) comments gratefully received.
>
> thank you.
> Capt. P

After you migrate it who is going to perform DBA and developer jobs?
If it is the former Informix people they will likely need substantial
retraining. I am aware of classes for Informix-to-Oracle I can refer
you to off you contact me off-line.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:43:55 -0500, Mark C. Stock wrote:

DO check out the Aubit4GL project. The latest release is working for most
code with enough coverage that there is at least one large 4GL customer using
it for production already. Automagic data and SQL dialect conversion included.

The version on source forge is older but the Aubit site has the latest.

Art S. Kagel


> "Captain Pedantic" <theharlequin36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c1nda4$1k5p2g$1@ID-162943.news.uni-berlin.de... | A potential customer
> has asked me to provide an estimate of how long it will | take to migrate
> their 4GL suite running on Informix "to Oracle". | | (I'm reminded here of
> Obnoxio's post of a while ago ridiculing another | rather vague question: "I
> have a piece of string in my pocket. How long is | it? It's red by the way
> ...")
> |
> | Seriously, though, what sort of things should we be asking beyond these?:
> |
> | 1. Complexity of schema (what sort of things, other than serial, are going
> | to be difficult to convert?)
> | 2. Number of lines of 4GL
> | 3. Number of stored procedures and triggers | 4. Total number of tables |
> 5 Volume of data
> | 6. Availability of original programmers/BAs | 7. Quality of documentation
> |
> | Assuming they don't want to re-write their app, they have to use a |
> third-party "universal" compiler like 4Js or Querix (or of course Websphere
> | EGL, if they've the time to kill). Any other options? | | All
> (constructive) comments gratefully received. | | thank you.
> | Capt. P
> |
> |
>
> target platform?
> essential business functionality? -- most 'migrations' need to fix badly
> implemented logic
> quality of original design? -- how many kludges in the code? quality of
> data? -- how much cleaning will be required to move it to a normalized
> schema
> how old is the app and what has happened to the business since then? what
> are users currently doing with the app? what are they doing to work-around
> its limitations? what goals were never met with the original app that could
> be achieved with the 'migration'?
> what type of cutover period is anticipated? how will it be managed?
>
> i really don't believe in 'migrating' an application without good analysis
> of the current state (health, usability, correctness) of the application and
> data, and then coming up with a strategy for balancing redesign, repair, and
> redeployment -- usually the same (or perhaps less) expense that is involved
> in attempting a technology migration will provide a more correct application
>
> if possible, first give them an estimate for 'getting the string out of
> their pocket'
>
> ;-{ mcs

A detailed data dictionary of the schema. Would be a good thing to have.

"Steven Hauser" <hause011@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:c1vu6h$adn$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu...
> A detailed data dictionary of the schema. Would be a good thing to have.

Were you asked
To write
A poem
Today?

Steven Hauser wrote:
> A detailed data dictionary of the schema. Would be a good thing to have.

Your hiku needs a little work.

SELECT object_name, object_type
FROM user_objects;

SELECT object_name, object_type
FROM all_objects
WHERE owner = <schema_name>;

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Captain Pedantic wrote:

> "Steven Hauser" <hause011@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
> news:c1vu6h$adn$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu...
>> A detailed data dictionary of the schema. Would be a good thing to have.
>
> Were you asked
> To write
> A poem
> Today?

A witty young poster named Steven
liked making his sentences even.
The grumpiest Captain
went round there and slapped him
and left with his chest all a-heavin' ...

--
"C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule"
- Coluche