Quick question - I was told a little about Oracle 10G on Friday - and about it's grid computing capabilities.



Question: Is this the same as Informix XPS (functionality wise) - or is this something completely different ?













Dirk Moolman

Database and Unix Administrator

MXGROUP





"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

-Kierkegaard






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sending to informix-list

Dirk Moolman wrote:

>
> Quick question - I was told a little about Oracle 10G on Friday - and
> about it's grid computing capabilities.
>
>
>
> Question: Is this the same as Informix XPS (functionality wise) - or is
> this something completely different ?

It's something completely different. XPS actually works, for a start.

--
"C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule"
- Coluche

Obnoxio The Clown wrote:

> Dirk Moolman wrote:
>
>
>>Quick question - I was told a little about Oracle 10G on Friday - and
>>about it's grid computing capabilities.
>>
>>
>>
>>Question: Is this the same as Informix XPS (functionality wise) - or is
>>this something completely different ?
>
>
> It's something completely different. XPS actually works, for a start.

XPS may work ... but so does 10g grid as I happily proved to more
than 60 people last week: Wednesday evening to the Puget Sound
Oracle Users Group and Thursday evening to my Advanced Oracle class
at the University of Washington.

Comparing grid with XPS is like comparing a Informix database with
an Excel spreadsheet. While they may both run on computers that is
pretty much where the similarities begin and end. If you would like
to come to Seattle on March 20th for Oracle Technology Day I would
be happy to give you a full tour including ASM and ADDM.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

"Daniel Morgan" <damorgan@x.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:1078078329.562727@yasure...

> ... but so does 10g grid as I happily proved to more
> than 60 people last week: Wednesday evening to the Puget Sound
> Oracle Users Group and Thursday evening to my Advanced Oracle class
> at the University of Washington.

Do you keep your trumpet close by, Daniel, for those frequent occasions that
you're going to need it?

Daniel Morgan wrote:

> Obnoxio The Clown wrote:
>
>> Dirk Moolman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Quick question - I was told a little about Oracle 10G on Friday - and
>>>about it's grid computing capabilities.
>>>
>>>Question: Is this the same as Informix XPS (functionality wise) - or is
>>>this something completely different ?
>>
>>
>> It's something completely different. XPS actually works, for a start.
>
> XPS may work ... but so does 10g grid as I happily proved to more
> than 60 people last week: Wednesday evening to the Puget Sound
> Oracle Users Group and Thursday evening to my Advanced Oracle class
> at the University of Washington.
>
> Comparing grid with XPS is like comparing a Informix database with
> an Excel spreadsheet. While they may both run on computers that is
> pretty much where the similarities begin and end. If you would like
> to come to Seattle on March 20th for Oracle Technology Day I would
> be happy to give you a full tour including ASM and ADDM.

Sure, I'll come. You send the plane ticket?

--
"C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule"
- Coluche

Obnoxio The Clown wrote:

> Daniel Morgan wrote:
>
>
>>Obnoxio The Clown wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dirk Moolman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Quick question - I was told a little about Oracle 10G on Friday - and
>>>>about it's grid computing capabilities.
>>>>
>>>>Question: Is this the same as Informix XPS (functionality wise) - or is
>>>>this something completely different ?
>>>
>>>
>>>It's something completely different. XPS actually works, for a start.
>>
>>XPS may work ... but so does 10g grid as I happily proved to more
>>than 60 people last week: Wednesday evening to the Puget Sound
>>Oracle Users Group and Thursday evening to my Advanced Oracle class
>>at the University of Washington.
>>
>>Comparing grid with XPS is like comparing a Informix database with
>>an Excel spreadsheet. While they may both run on computers that is
>>pretty much where the similarities begin and end. If you would like
>>to come to Seattle on March 20th for Oracle Technology Day I would
>>be happy to give you a full tour including ASM and ADDM.
>
>
> Sure, I'll come. You send the plane ticket?

Where are you?

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

"Dirk Moolman" <DirkM@mxgroup.co.za> wrote in message news:<c1soil$pc1$1@terabinaries.xmission.com>...
> Quick question - I was told a little about Oracle 10G on Friday - and about it's grid computing capabilities.
>
>
>
> Question: Is this the same as Informix XPS (functionality wise) - or is this something completely different ?
>
I suspect that there is going to be a lot of confusion of Oracle 10G
and what the rest of the world considers to be grid computing.

The rest of the world considers grid computing to be using a resource
regardless of the resource. That means that it considers an Oracle
data source to be equivalent to an IDS data source, or a DB2, or a
MSSql. For that matter, in a true grid environment, non-relational
data, such as data contained in spreadsheets, maps, XML documents,
etc. are also considered to be valid data for processing. This means
that data sources must be treated as a virturalized datasource.

Oracle 10G is basically an XPS (or RAC) type of system with some
resource provisioning. By what the rest of the world considers to be
a grid system, 10G would not be considered to be grid - simply because
is not virturalizing the data sources.



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> Dirk Moolman
>
> Database and Unix Administrator
>
> MXGROUP
>
>
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>
>
> "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
>
> -Kierkegaard
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1700 Spam messages and set aside 372 Newsletters for me
> You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com
>
> sending to informix-list

mpruet wrote:

> Oracle 10G is basically an XPS (or RAC) type of system with some
> resource provisioning. By what the rest of the world considers to be
> a grid system, 10G would not be considered to be grid - simply because
> is not virturalizing the data sources.

I have understood that Oracle marketing has done a pathetic job of
explaining what they meant by grid ... but if your explanation is
what they've been communicating ... I'll replace the word pathetic
with catastrophic.

There is absolutely no relationship between XPS and grid or between
RAC and grid. The grid control can be used to manage cluster resources
but one can have RAC without grid and grid without RAC. They are two
entirely different technologies ... two entirely different concepts.

So the statement, above, is completely incorrect.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Daniel Morgan wrote:

> mpruet wrote:
>
>> Oracle 10G is basically an XPS (or RAC) type of system with some
>> resource provisioning. By what the rest of the world considers to be
>> a grid system, 10G would not be considered to be grid - simply because
>> is not virturalizing the data sources.
>
> I have understood that Oracle marketing has done a pathetic job of
> explaining what they meant by grid ... but if your explanation is
> what they've been communicating ... I'll replace the word pathetic
> with catastrophic.

I wondered what had happened to all Informix's marketing staff. Now I know.

--
"C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule"
- Coluche

Daniel Morgan <damorgan@x.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<1078098084.135691@yasure>...
> mpruet wrote:
>
> > Oracle 10G is basically an XPS (or RAC) type of system with some
> > resource provisioning. By what the rest of the world considers to be
> > a grid system, 10G would not be considered to be grid - simply because
> > is not virturalizing the data sources.
>
> I have understood that Oracle marketing has done a pathetic job of
> explaining what they meant by grid ... but if your explanation is
> what they've been communicating ... I'll replace the word pathetic
> with catastrophic.
>
> There is absolutely no relationship between XPS and grid or between
> RAC and grid. The grid control can be used to manage cluster resources
> but one can have RAC without grid and grid without RAC. They are two
> entirely different technologies ... two entirely different concepts.
>
> So the statement, above, is completely incorrect.

But yours, and Oracle marketing's, is gibberish.

From:

http://www.gridcomputing.com/gridfaq.html

"The key distinction between clusters and grids is[sic] mainly lie in the way
resources are managed. In case of clusters, the resource allocation is
performed by a centralised resource manager and all nodes cooperatively
work together as a single unified resource. In case of Grids, each node
has its own resource manager and don't aim for providing a single system
view."

Given this definition of the term of art ("grid" - in the context of
computing) there can be no such thing as a centralized "grid control".
The whole point of a grid -- as distinct from a cluster -- is that a
grid is self-organizing. That's why "there is no relationship between
XPS and grid, or RAC and grid".

If what 10g has is a tool that lets DBAs add machines to and remove
machines at will, then that is not a "grid" as defined above. It's a
really useful thing, but it ain't a grid. With a grid, you tell a
machine about 'the grid', and it insinuates itself into 'the grid',
making its resources available for whatever it is that 'the grid' is
up to. With 10g, you tell 10g about the machine, quite a different thing.

There are *lots* of interesting technologies being worked on to make
data management on 'the grid' a reality -- distributed hash tables,
agoric query processing, transaction-pairing -- but none of them has
found its way into a commercial DBMS.

What Oracle's use of the term does, however, is to brilliantly obfuscate
an emergent technology with buzz-word-babble. Look - resource provisioning
is a really cool, really hard, thing to do, and if Oracle's managed it
then that's pretty impressive. But a grid is something else entirely.

So, simple question Daniel. Do you tell the machine about 10G, or do
you tell 10G about the machine?