Re: EGL demo afterthoughts (long)

#1 (**permalink**) 04-20-2008, 07:50 AM

Well, Very inetresting what you say.

Have you ever shared your ideas with IBM... maybe they are willing to
listen proposal like yours.

Chucho!

Fernando Fernandez wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> I've just been watching an EGL demo by Tom Chastain, from IBM Labs, in
> an event called Infobahn, in Lisbon.
>
> I must confess I'm a bit disappointed.
>
> We've worked with 4GL since the 80's and we work with Java since late
> 90's. We've been able to keep away from major detours called "4GL for
> Windows", "New Era" (this one fooled us for some time), 4J's, Querix,
> etc. We were expecting the "real thing"...
>
> And the real thing should have had, for starters:
>
> 1. Full (I mean *full*) 4GL compatibility (syntax, file format,
> command line)
> 2. Object-orientation
> 3. Java integration (like with C in older versions)
> 4. Windows & web browser execution
>
> Of course, it would be nice to have also:
>
> * an IDE (eclipse is a good choice)
> * multiple simultaneous connections
> * more instructions to send mail, read/write files, parse XML, etc.
>
> I sincerely don't understand why this has been so difficult. Let's see:
>
> 1. Rewriting the compiler it's not so difficult. Several companies
> have done it, and there is even an open source project that has
> done it too. Doing it in Java wouldn't be harder
> 2. Object orientation has been already done in New Era , keeping
> (incomplete) compatibility with the original 4GL.
> 3. Java integration comes easy after the first two
> 4. Running in Windows has already been done in "4GL for Windows" (are
> the 'O' guys smarter?)
>
> Now we've been hearing the EGL spin for some time, about the "New
> Informix 4GL", and we are very interested, of course. But unfortunately
> the first demos of the product are here and EGL is not what we expected.
> Let's see why:
>
> * 4GL is converted into a different, uglier, language, in witch SQL
> is not part of the syntax, it is "escaped" like in ESQL-C or SQL/J
> * Windows and Browser/applet direct usage is not possible (yet?),
> only Web-HTML (with manual conversion of forms and input?)
> * Heavy emphasis is placed on Visual editor and JSF, as if any 4GL
> programmer cares about it or wants to learn it
> * The IDE is very powerful but is also very complex
>
> Well, IBM, try again!... I'd suggest these steps:
>
> * Creating a real 4GL layer to edit/compile/debug, hiding EGL
> underneath or generating Java directly, with no need for
> conversion tools
> * Creating a Java GUI that runs in Windows and in a browser as an applet
> * Extending INPUT to handle JSF forms (for the very few programmers
> that want to use this fine technology)
> * Extending the syntax to do OO (see Python for easy OO) and let
> Java Objects be used from 4GL
>
> In summary: 4GL is a simple, powerful, language, in a simple
> environment. Simplicity is key. Let me simplify your job and tell you
> what I'd like to see in the next EGL presentation:
>
> 1. Start with a 4GL program with a form and a report
> 2. Run a shell and type "newfglpc program.4gl" - creating program.jar
> - and then run "newfglrun program" and show a window with the
> program running in GUI mode
> 3. Then, run "newfglpc --web program.4gl" - creating a .war, this
> time - and then drop the warfile in an appserver; then go to a URL
> like "http://server/4gl/program" and show it run on the browser
> with the exact same look&feel that in GUI mode.
> 4. And then, after establishing that the "New Informix 4GL" can
> really substitute on the old one, only then, very carefully, the
> demo could go on about JSF, app servers, complex IDE's (editing
> and debugging 4GL directly), etc., so that nobody is scared. ;-)
>
> Am I expecting too much? Is it not possible? Is it not profitable?
> Anyway, I hope this helps and I'm sorry for any imprecision.
>
> Fernando
>

sending to informix-list

#2 (**permalink**) 04-20-2008, 07:50 AM

Jesus Antonio Santos Giraldo wrote:

> Have you ever shared your ideas with IBM... maybe they are willing to
> listen proposal like yours.

Amazin'! I just saw a pig fly by my windah!

--
Strewth! Stick a sock in it, Sheila!

#3 (**permalink**) 04-20-2008, 07:50 AM

"Jesus Antonio Santos Giraldo" <jeansagi@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:ck1il1$c4r$1@news.xmission.com...
>
>
> Well, Very inetresting what you say.
>
> Have you ever shared your ideas with IBM... maybe they are willing to
> listen proposal like yours.
>
> Chucho!

Yeah. Just call 1-800-IBM-LISTENS and they'll put you straight through to
the right person ...

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