>From: Tool <tool@thetool.com>
>It will take a one-time showing of Ubuntu next to SuSE or RedHat and you
>will be
>sold. Synaptic is the Yast equivalent for software package management, but
>wait,
>there's still apt-get, and yet even more tools available to keep your
>system up
>to date. I had a Ubuntu 6.02 system that I upgraded to 6.10 with one
>command-line
>command, and after about 2 hours the system was completely upgraded.
>
Uhm no.

First, I think you've lost your perspective.
Hint: Where was ubuntu when SuSE and RedHat were just getting started.
(BIG HINT: Why do you think that they use RPM and Ubuntu doesn't?)

Second.

The point others were trying to make was that those Linux users who use
products like DB2, Oracle, and IDS on Linux are going to purchase a
supported copy like SuSE's Enterprise series. Unlike you and I who would opt
for the "free version" (TANSTAAFL).

This is the market that the developers are going to work towards.

Will Informix work with Ubuntu? Most likely if the glibc and the kernel
match levels with RH and SuSE.

With respect to Linux for commercial users, I'd say tha Novell did a smart
thing by doing that cross deal with Microsoft. Indemnification does a lot
towards getting a technology adopted.

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Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
>
>
>
>> From: Tool <tool@thetool.com>
>> It will take a one-time showing of Ubuntu next to SuSE or RedHat and
>> you will be
>> sold. Synaptic is the Yast equivalent for software package
>> management, but wait,
>> there's still apt-get, and yet even more tools available to keep your
>> system up
>> to date. I had a Ubuntu 6.02 system that I upgraded to 6.10 with one
>> command-line
>> command, and after about 2 hours the system was completely upgraded.
>>
> Uhm no.
>
> First, I think you've lost your perspective.

I've lost perspective on some things and gained on a lot of others.

> Hint: Where was ubuntu when SuSE and RedHat were just getting started.
> (BIG HINT: Why do you think that they use RPM and Ubuntu doesn't?)
>

It doesn't really matter where ubuntu _was_, the point is where are they now?
SuSE and RedHat have failed to make RPM better. They can't. They have too
much invested in keeping it status quo, simply to prevent breaking it. Breaking
it means making it better, and risk losing your customers who will simply start
looking for Linux with better software asset management tools. Ubuntu is at
the top of the list.

Defending RPM as if it's better is a red herring. It's just not a valid
argument. The bottom line is that RPM does a few things well, but is too
difficult to use to do a lot of other things best. You end up having to
compromise. Don't get wrong, apt-get has had its own history and growing
pains. But what is instructive is in paying attention to the new crop of
distributions, most if not all are Debian based. After using Ubuntu, I
see no need to use SuSE for anything, or RedHat. Ubuntu is a solid release,
with excellent software asset management tools, superior in many ways to
RPM-based systems.

Your perspective should be asking, how well can I make my RPM system work
with Debian-based methods? Ubuntu still allows you to use RPM, still allows
you to set up an LSB-compliant system, still allows you to do what you already
do on RPM-based systems. SuSE and RedHat simply do not have the wide variety
of options that Ubuntu has. Ubuntu starts off as a Debian-based system, but
you can still do all the RPM stuff if you prefer to do it that way. But I
don't see SuSE or Redhat announcing to the world that they can set your system
up as a Debian system. It's just not going to happen.




> Second.
>
> The point others were trying to make was that those Linux users who use
> products like DB2, Oracle, and IDS on Linux are going to purchase a
> supported copy like SuSE's Enterprise series. Unlike you and I who would
> opt for the "free version" (TANSTAAFL).
>

Ubuntu sells support.

> This is the market that the developers are going to work towards.
>

The developers I'd be interested in are my son's age. 21 year olds who
are the next generation of IT people. Most of these people are being
exposed to Ubuntu, Knoppix, etc etc. This is where they will make their
choices. SuSE, RedHat are now legacy Linux systems, lost on people who
don't see the future.


> Will Informix work with Ubuntu? Most likely if the glibc and the kernel
> match levels with RH and SuSE.
>

Stability and status quo are important concepts in any IT endeavor, but
to overlook Ubuntu because of your lack of understanding of it doesn't
make it a bad choice. I worked with a Debian zealot a while back, and
took issue with him constantly introducing it into the enterprise systems
we had, that used SuSE, and some RedHat. Was it because I didn't like
Debian? No, it was support. Ubuntu changes that paradigm because we could
now get paid support for it. I can see now that in that environment we
would have had a better system, better update/upgrade tools, and less headaches
worrying about dependencies that might break in an RPM environment. Debian
itself was/is not the best choice for the enterprise, but systems like Knoppix
and Ubuntu have paved new ground by making updating and upgrading very robust,
and very easy. This translates into lower training costs, less risk, lower
compliance hurdles, and lower overall maintenance costs.

> With respect to Linux for commercial users, I'd say tha Novell did a
> smart thing by doing that cross deal with Microsoft. Indemnification
> does a lot towards getting a technology adopted.
>

Yes, well doing a deal is one thing. Adoption is another. As alternatives
to RPM-based systems start becoming more prominent, you will see this deal
become less relevant. The Linux world is changing far too fast to worry
about what SuSE did with Microsoft. The best thing about it is that it
validates Linux in the enterprise, but that simply means if you shop around
for the best Linux, it's no longer just SuSE or RedHat. I can exploit my
SuSE skills, but my 21 year old son can exploit his Ubuntu skills and run
circles around anyone knowing just SuSE or Redhat. It's that simple.