Do you think "the folks" can update the rest of us "would be
converters".....


-----Original Message-----
From: Serge Rielau [mailto:srielau@ca.eye-be-em.com]
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 7:02 AM
To: informix-list@iiug.org
Subject: Re: IDS to DB2 conversion


Neil,

The MTK for IDS is currently in beta. Not sure whether open or closed. I'll
get you in touch with the folks by email. Send me a ping.

Cheers
Serge
sending to informix-list

I'm told it's going to be open beta shortly. At which point you will
know about it by going to
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/db2/migration/mtk/

W.r.t. timing *tongueincheek*
1. Don't come over pushy if you want to get the girl ;-)
2. There is money to be made with competitive migration.

I rather see migrations from squeal and orrible than IDS.

Cheers
Serge

"Serge Rielau" <srielau@ca.eye-be-em.com> wrote in message
news:bv42dm$gve$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
> I'm told it's going to be open beta shortly. At which point you will
> know about it by going to
> http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/db2/migration/mtk/
>
> W.r.t. timing *tongueincheek*
> 1. Don't come over pushy if you want to get the girl ;-)
> 2. There is money to be made with competitive migration.
>
> I rather see migrations from squeal and orrible than IDS.

Me too. And I really appreciate the information and the contact, thank you
very much.
I would say, however, that having last week carried out a wide canvas of UK
Informix users, we find plenty of migrants to SQL Server, some to Oracle and
MySQL, even one to Progress .... but not a single one to DB2.
I hope IBM knows what it is doing ...

The fact that the MTK for Informix is being thrown together as an
afterthought rather speaks volumes - as much about their faith in
anyone going DB2 as how seriously they take Informix as a product
group - don't you think?

Andy


"Neil Truby" <neil.truby@ardenta.com> wrote in message news:<bv43n3$nga7g$1@ID-162943.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> "Serge Rielau" <srielau@ca.eye-be-em.com> wrote in message
> news:bv42dm$gve$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
> > I'm told it's going to be open beta shortly. At which point you will
> > know about it by going to
> > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/db2/migration/mtk/
> >
> > W.r.t. timing *tongueincheek*
> > 1. Don't come over pushy if you want to get the girl ;-)
> > 2. There is money to be made with competitive migration.
> >
> > I rather see migrations from squeal and orrible than IDS.
>
> Me too. And I really appreciate the information and the contact, thank you
> very much.
> I would say, however, that having last week carried out a wide canvas of UK
> Informix users, we find plenty of migrants to SQL Server, some to Oracle and
> MySQL, even one to Progress .... but not a single one to DB2.
> I hope IBM knows what it is doing ...

Neil Truby wrote:
> Me too. And I really appreciate the information and the contact, thank you
> very much.
> I would say, however, that having last week carried out a wide canvas of UK
> Informix users, we find plenty of migrants to SQL Server, some to Oracle and
> MySQL, even one to Progress .... but not a single one to DB2.
> I hope IBM knows what it is doing ...

I don't see any need for migration unless you need to use a specific application which don't support Informix.
Anyway, I'd love if a certain lady read this postings... Don't believe she does though...

Regards.

"Fernando Nunes" <spam@domus.online.pt> wrote in message
news:bv5it9$nhamf$1@ID-161111.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Neil Truby wrote:
> > Me too. And I really appreciate the information and the contact, thank
you
> > very much.
> > I would say, however, that having last week carried out a wide canvas of
UK
> > Informix users, we find plenty of migrants to SQL Server, some to Oracle
and
> > MySQL, even one to Progress .... but not a single one to DB2.
> > I hope IBM knows what it is doing ...
>
> I don't see any need for migration unless you need to use a specific
application which don't support Informix.
> Anyway, I'd love if a certain lady read this postings... Don't believe she
does though...

I think this is a decent point. And in all fairness to IBM, it does seem to
have made significant investment in preserving and enhancing the product
line, in maintaining the high quality of tech support (in the UK at any
rate), and in publising roadmaps stretching as far as is reasonable into the
future. I for one do believe the sincerity of the IBM commitment to keeping
Informix for existing users.

Despite all this however, there is an unavoidable problem. People perceive
Informix to be a dying product, and they don't want to risk being stuck on a
dying product. The reason for this perception is that IBM cannot bring
itself to advertise Informix, nor to market it to new customers. Their
stated position is to offer DB2 to new customers unless there is an
overwhelming reason (usually a vertical-specific datablade) to offer an
Informix solution.

And so the user base erodes inexorably. I suppose IBM are prepared to
accept this provided DB2 picks up its fair share of the defectors. My
experience is that it isn't.

Neil Truby wrote:

> And so the user base erodes inexorably. I suppose IBM are prepared to
> accept this provided DB2 picks up its fair share of the defectors. My
> experience is that it isn't.

All the customers we are used to see have Informix,Oracle and SQL Server in their "homes"...
If they feel they must move what will they choose? Another "unknown" database?
Well... 2 + 2 is still 4 isn't it?

Seems too obvious for me... maybe I'm wrong... maybe someone knows better...

Regards....

All interesting comments. Here are mine:
I don't agree that the Informix MTK is an afterthought.
A successful migration needs a lot more than just a tool.
It just takes so long to pull all the pieces together.
These pieces include: MTK, language interfaces (like 4GL, ESQL/C, ...)
Transfer of Informix features into DB2 and lastly synchronization of IDS
development with DB2 (aka. ensure one can use new features in Informix
and not regret it should one decide to move to DB2 later).
When Informix was bought it was too late to rework the DB2 V8.1 plan.
Rest assured that DB2 Development is taking great care in introducing
Informix features into DB2 (drawing on Informix developers to make sure
it's done right and not lost in translation).

Those customers who leave now are lost, too bad. Those who stay will
find that their options increase over time as DB2 moves closer to IDS.

Cheers
Serge

> People perceive
> Informix to be a dying product, and they don't want to risk being stuck on a
> dying product.

The nub of it, surely.

Andy

Good reply Serge, thanks. But ...

Serge Rielau <srielau@ca.eye-be-em.com> wrote in message news:<bv6mdd$lga$1@hanover.torolab.ibm.com>...

> I don't agree that the Informix MTK is an afterthought.

How come the tools for Oracle and SQL Server are already in place
then, according to Neil's earlier post? This speaks for itself that
IBM didn't think of Informix as a credible player when it first went
about writing migration tools, and while the acquisition should have
changed this point of view, the acquisition wasn't exactly yesterday.

As for the lost business, it's bad enough being told "if you want to
stick with us you'll have to switch to a product we like better", but
I think most of the real damage was done in the first year when there
was no evidence that Informix was not going to be summarily dumped.
Although there is now some kind of game plan in place the lack of a
long-term commitment to Informix and the intention to wind it down
couldn't be more obvious, and the comments elsewhere in the Newsgroup
about the quality of the Passport Advantage programme don't exactly
inspire confidence. The lack of any marketing and the punitive,
archaic maintenace costs seem to drive the final nail in the coffin; I
know of at least one company that is currently in the process of
dumping Informix for SQL Server for this last reason alone.

Although you say that DB2 will more closely resemble IDS in the future
I don't think anyone will accept this as a sufficient second-best to
hang on if they can possibly avoid doing so.

Andy




> A successful migration needs a lot more than just a tool.
> It just takes so long to pull all the pieces together.
> These pieces include: MTK, language interfaces (like 4GL, ESQL/C, ...)
> Transfer of Informix features into DB2 and lastly synchronization of IDS
> development with DB2 (aka. ensure one can use new features in Informix
> and not regret it should one decide to move to DB2 later).
> When Informix was bought it was too late to rework the DB2 V8.1 plan.
> Rest assured that DB2 Development is taking great care in introducing
> Informix features into DB2 (drawing on Informix developers to make sure
> it's done right and not lost in translation).
>
> Those customers who leave now are lost, too bad. Those who stay will
> find that their options increase over time as DB2 moves closer to IDS.
>
> Cheers
> Serge