"Serge Rielau" <srielau@ca.ibm.com> wrote:-

> Informix IDS 9 is recommended by IBM for Apps exploiting OO as well as apps requiring the DBMS
> runs OLTP embedded.
>
> Informix IDS has been and still is after what .. 5 years with IBM(?)... the backbone of >90% of
> 911 call centers in the US. Can't be that bad then and ain't going anywhere....

Add to it, IDS runs on 20 out of 25 top grocery chains in North America,
and about 80% of all retail shops like Wal-Mart, Sears etc.

I have not heard of one significant customer in the above industry switching
to Oracle after IBM bought Informix. On the contrary Wal-Mart.com switched
to Informix from Oracle. [ Wal-Mart.com is separate from Wal-Mart stores ].

Much I like Informix (though I stopped working with it for about a year
now), I also think it is toast for reasons totally different. What
is happening is that Informix skilled people are rapidly shrinking, just like
Sybase and other fading products. In my last project I worked with some
UK folks and was shocked to learn that they were exposed to only one
RDBMS: SQL Server, right thru their college days. Little bit of research
told me that this trend is bit global with most of the fresh graduates hardly
proficient in lesser known databases.

"rkusenet" <rkusenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
newsg8if.35805$gK4.1149183@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> "Serge Rielau" <srielau@ca.ibm.com> wrote:-
>
>> Informix IDS 9 is recommended by IBM for Apps exploiting OO as well as
>> apps requiring the DBMS runs OLTP embedded.
>>
>> Informix IDS has been and still is after what .. 5 years with IBM(?)...
>> the backbone of >90% of 911 call centers in the US. Can't be that bad
>> then and ain't going anywhere....
>
> Add to it, IDS runs on 20 out of 25 top grocery chains in North America,
> and about 80% of all retail shops like Wal-Mart, Sears etc.
>
> I have not heard of one significant customer in the above industry
> switching
> to Oracle after IBM bought Informix. On the contrary Wal-Mart.com switched
> to Informix from Oracle. [ Wal-Mart.com is separate from Wal-Mart
> stores ].
>

Even so, Informix had only 1.4% market share in 2004, even less than Sybase.

> Much I like Informix (though I stopped working with it for about a year
> now), I also think it is toast for reasons totally different. What
> is happening is that Informix skilled people are rapidly shrinking, just
> like
> Sybase and other fading products. In my last project I worked with some
> UK folks and was shocked to learn that they were exposed to only one
> RDBMS: SQL Server, right thru their college days. Little bit of research
> told me that this trend is bit global with most of the fresh graduates
> hardly
> proficient in lesser known databases.
>

I am not surprised. Informix's future is about as bright as OS/2.

>From end user's (my company) point of view, the biggest issue of
informix I can see is the cost (normally people complain this about
oracle). I just check it from IBM and Oracle. The list price of IDS is
about 20% more than oracle EE. No one is more expensive than oracle,
when it comes to database. I'm sure IBM will support its current
customers, but it appears that they don't want any new deals.

>> When did you last choose your car by the battery?
>>Because when your phone needs a recharge twice a day you swear at the
>> phone company.
You need much more service on database than battery. We can bundle
database service to the vendor. However, the problems are: first, it
will cost us a fortune; second, when there is a performance issue, the
vendor could let us to buy a bigger machine when all they to do is
changing one line of code.

>What is happening is that Informix skilled people are rapidly shrinking, just like
>Sybase and other fading products.
In this case, database is more like a car rather than a battery.
Certainly, we can hire a Informix expertise. It will cost a lot when
the skilled people are shrinking. I forget to mention that the town I
live is in the middle of desert, with more than 1500 km away from any
major cities. You probably won't buy a car here without a local
mechanic who can do its maintenance. Remote DBA isn't possible because
of regulation. If my company tries to save such money, they will get a
hard lesson.

Less popularity also means less real gurus, more chance to be the first
person who hit the bugs.

Cheers,
Xiaoxin

rkusenet wrote:

> Much I like Informix (though I stopped working with it for about a year
> now), I also think it is toast for reasons totally different. What
> is happening is that Informix skilled people are rapidly shrinking, just like
> Sybase and other fading products. In my last project I worked with some
> UK folks and was shocked to learn that they were exposed to only one
> RDBMS: SQL Server, right thru their college days. Little bit of research
> told me that this trend is bit global with most of the fresh graduates hardly
> proficient in lesser known databases.

That is precisely what I have been saying but few want to hear the
message. But what you also need to know is that what drives the
curriculum in classes such as mine is attendance. And students have
no interest in classes taught in anything other than SQL Server and
Oracle.

And it isn't just at the University of Washington, 1.5 miles away from
Bill Gates house. It is the same at the vast majority of colleges and
universities.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
http://www.psoug.org
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)

xiaoxin wrote:
> The list price of IDS is about 20% more than oracle EE. No one is
> more expensive than oracle, when it comes to database.

While that may have been true in the past. And is certainly a
common myth today. It is not reality today as you found out.

The truth, as I understand it, is that Oracle salespeople have been
told to NEVER lose a deal based on price. If a buyer pays more for
Oracle then the fault is entirely theirs.

But wouldn't a more accurate comparison of IDS to Oracle be with
Oracle's Standard Edition?
--
Daniel A. Morgan
http://www.psoug.org
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)

rkusenet wrote:

> Add to it, IDS runs on 20 out of 25 top grocery chains in North America,
> and about 80% of all retail shops like Wal-Mart, Sears etc.

And how many of those 20 grocery chains and 80% of retail shops are
also running SQL Server and Oracle?

Seems to me this is rather creative use of statistics. No doubt
Microsoft can similarly claim that 100% of them use MS Access.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
http://www.psoug.org
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)

>But wouldn't a more accurate comparison of IDS to Oracle be with
>Oracle's Standard Edition?
No, I compare it with Oracle Enterprise Edition.
I check the US price:
https://www-112.ibm.com/software/how...one&S_CMP=none
IBM Informix Dynamic Server Enterprise Edition Unlimited Processor
License + SW Maintenance 12 Months (D6DAXLL) 50,000
Oracle Database Enterprise Edition - Processor Perpetual 40,000 .
Plus 22% 12 Months support is 48,800.

IDS is 2.46% dearer. However, IDS wins by nearly 30% in the local list
price!

Cheers,
Xiaoxin

Bob Jones apparently said,on my timestamp of 27/11/2005 4:02 PM:

>
>
> I am not surprised. Informix's future is about as bright as OS/2.

Ouch!...

--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
in rainy Sydney, Australia
wizofoz2k@yahoo.com.au.nospam

In case it has been misunderstood:
Informix IDS is nearly 30% more expensive than Oracle Enterprise
Edition in the local list price.

Regards,
Xiaoxin

"Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote in message
news:x5bif.19109$BZ5.8847@newssvr13.news.prodigy.c om...
>

>> Much I like Informix (though I stopped working with it for about a year
>> now), I also think it is toast for reasons totally different. What
>> is happening is that Informix skilled people are rapidly shrinking, just
>> like
>> Sybase and other fading products. In my last project I worked with some
>> UK folks and was shocked to learn that they were exposed to only one
>> RDBMS: SQL Server, right thru their college days. Little bit of research
>> told me that this trend is bit global with most of the fresh graduates
>> hardly
>> proficient in lesser known databases.

I help companies equip for a market-leading app in Europe that remains
Informix-only. I fear for how long though: the last two customers have both
expressed concern not at Informix itself or even IBM's plans for it, but the
in shortage of skilled staff. Good for me selling managed service of
course, but not good for Informix long-term.

I previously mentioned that we recruited another graduate trainee this
summer, the first for a couple of years. We got a very good one but he,
like most people we interviewed this time, and in stark contrast to even 2
years ago, hadn't even covered SQL Server even in Computer Science: the unis
seem to think Access is sufficient grounding in database theory now!