We cannot guarantee what other vendors will do. However, we are closely
engaged with the vendors mentioned below as well as many others. While we
continue to work with these vendors to ensure support of IDS, we need our
install base to influence the other vendors they purchase from just as you
have influenced IBM. Oracle is currently working on certifying IDS v9.40
with PeopleSoft and we are asking for certification on v10.0. Baan is in
the process of certifying v10.0 and we are currently working on a strategic
initiative with Baan. We continue to work with SAP and will keep you
posted on changes.

Users communicating with their vendors has the most significant impact on
vendor behavior. I would like to thank each and every customer and
business partner that helped to change IBM's strategy with Informix and I
would ask that you all work with your other vendors to help us influence
them to continue support for Informix.

Christine Normile
Informix Dynamic Server Product Manager
IBM Software Group
Information Management

Phone/Fax 877.252.5399
Mobile 210.365.5073
Email Christine.Normile@us.ibm.com



DA Morgan
<damorgan@psoug.o
rg> To
Sent by: informix-list@iiug.org
owner-informix-li cc
st@iiug.org
Subject
Re: Informix in the news! Part
12/11/2005 03:51 Deux...
PM


Please respond to
DA Morgan






Captain Pedantic wrote:
> "scottishpoet" <dryburghj@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1134300147.359389.179540@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>>Other than saying they'll scrap DB2 and move everyone to Informix, what
>>do they need to say to give you the rock solid commotment you are
>>looking for?
>>
>>>what are you looking for Daniel?
>
>
> Advertising?

I said it: A road map.

Give a written statement from the highest level of the corporation
laying out specifically what steps are being made to provide a long
term SAFE path for the existing customer base. And it must include
not just that they will continue to develop new features but what
they are going to do to GUARANTEE application support from SAP,
Oracle, Baan, etc.

A statement such as "it is our premier OLTP platform" is meaningless if
no OLTP vendor is going to support it with new releases of their product.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
http://www.psoug.org
damorgan@x.washington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)

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sending to informix-list

Christine Normile wrote:
> We cannot guarantee what other vendors will do. However, we are closely
> engaged with the vendors mentioned below as well as many others. While we
> continue to work with these vendors to ensure support of IDS, we need our
> install base to influence the other vendors they purchase from just as you
> have influenced IBM. Oracle is currently working on certifying IDS v9.40
> with PeopleSoft and we are asking for certification on v10.0. Baan is in
> the process of certifying v10.0 and we are currently working on a strategic
> initiative with Baan. We continue to work with SAP and will keep you
> posted on changes.
>
> Users communicating with their vendors has the most significant impact on
> vendor behavior. I would like to thank each and every customer and
> business partner that helped to change IBM's strategy with Informix and I
> would ask that you all work with your other vendors to help us influence
> them to continue support for Informix.
>
> Christine Normile
> Informix Dynamic Server Product Manager
> IBM Software Group
> Information Management
>
> Phone/Fax 877.252.5399
> Mobile 210.365.5073
> Email Christine.Normile@us.ibm.com
>

Christine you are stating that you cannot guarantee anything either, which
is most of the point of any of this. It remains obvious to DB2 users that
they don't have to worry about the future of DB2, this product could not
possibly die because it is the "flagship" database product for IBM.

But there is nothing in the air that says Informix will not die. You can
say it has a road map, it has this, it has that, but without an active,
vocal marketing plan IDS has no chance of being taken seriously. In fact
it would stand a better chance in Open Source simply because it would be
accessible to a wider audience of people who could examine it, develop
with it, and give it eternal life. It cannot have eternal life the way it
is today because the owner has to apply common sense, and that means only
one product can be number one. All the others are less-than that, and have
to be considered only after presenting the flagship product first. This
is not rocket science. Trying to convince people that they can pick DB2
or IDS just confuses people when you do the analysis. They are peer
products. One has a bright future, the other will remain uncertain because
it is a step-child.

Since both products come from a commercial enterprise, business decisions
will shape the future, no matter what anyone says. Open Source is one way
to preserve IDS without having to lose face, in fact it bolsters it without
having to do anything--in that space it will automatically be number one,
and it will be there forever as long as there is an organization present to
support it. Then nobody can kill it, and its uncertain future evaporates.
In fact it would shake up the db market dramatically.

"Double Echo" <doubleecho@your.com> wrote

> Since both products come from a commercial enterprise, business decisions
> will shape the future, no matter what anyone says. Open Source is one way
> to preserve IDS without having to lose face, in fact it bolsters it without
> having to do anything--in that space it will automatically be number one,
> and it will be there forever as long as there is an organization present to
> support it. Then nobody can kill it, and its uncertain future evaporates.
> In fact it would shake up the db market dramatically.

Anyone who expects IBM to opensource Informix should get his head
examined. Open Informix will guarantee the death of one RDBMS
on LUW platform:- DB2. I mean, except for EE for large Datawarehousing
application, which idiot will prefer DB2 over Informix when the later is free.

Otherwise I agree with your analysis that open sourcing Informix will shake
up the market.

How strange. A free product with commitment from open source community is
guaranteed to last as a product than being developed and sold from a 95 billion
dollar company . If I were an accountant, I would only conclude that there is
something terribly wrong with the IT industry and is fit for only crackpots.

rkusenet wrote:
> "Double Echo" <doubleecho@your.com> wrote
>
>
>>Since both products come from a commercial enterprise, business decisions
>>will shape the future, no matter what anyone says. Open Source is one way
>>to preserve IDS without having to lose face, in fact it bolsters it without
>>having to do anything--in that space it will automatically be number one,
>>and it will be there forever as long as there is an organization present to
>>support it. Then nobody can kill it, and its uncertain future evaporates.
>>In fact it would shake up the db market dramatically.
>
>
> Anyone who expects IBM to opensource Informix should get his head
> examined.

I expect IBM to Open Source Informix.

> Open Informix will guarantee the death of one RDBMS
> on LUW platform:- DB2. I mean, except for EE for large Datawarehousing
> application, which idiot will prefer DB2 over Informix when the later is free.
>

Not necessarily. These are peer products, but that doesn't mean everyone wants
or needs the same thing. Informix is not the only game in town. There are
features that are compelling for both brands along several different engine
product lines. There are benefits to both products. There are environments
where one works better than another, say, from a talent-pool perspective.

Existing DB2 environments are welcoming a lot of the new features found in
DB2, and in fact, the next round of improvements make it an even more compelling
product in a __competitive__ environment. But DB2 will continue to succeed and
has a better chance simply because it IS given the opportunity to compete in the
marketing space. Informix is not really given a chance to compete because it's
the step-child. There isn't any other logical reason that can be given. IBM
should move quickly to take advantage of a declining Informix market, and revive
Informix in a different context, one that can practically guarantee its survival,
and proliferation. It doesn't mean DB2 would disappear, if anything both
products should be better off because of Open Sourcing.

Think about what that means. Even Larry would have to give back any improvements
his crew would make ( as if they could ) to the engine. This would be the true
commoditization of databases, as even these products move more towards professional
services as the business model instead of trying in anguish to find the right
licensing model that is rapidly becoming antiquated. First dual-core, then
quad-core, then what? How do you license the database engine then? The market
is changing too rapidly to use existing metrics. The application is where the
action is, database engines will always take the back seat, and this means even
Larry would be running Informix simply because the application is what's really
important.

> Otherwise I agree with your analysis that open sourcing Informix will shake
> up the market.
>
> How strange. A free product with commitment from open source community is
> guaranteed to last as a product than being developed and sold from a 95 billion
> dollar company . If I were an accountant, I would only conclude that there is
> something terribly wrong with the IT industry and is fit for only crackpots.
>
>

There have been several other database products that have tried to jump into
the Open Source space, but they have gone largely unnoticed because they didn't
have anything compelling about them, only an offer to the developer that "this
is something we found in the attic that you might want to play with". The
difference of course for Informix is that it is a real product, in use, and
in production. Informixs' biggest problem is not the product, but even being
given a chance to be noticed and appreciated.

But back to your point, if the annual revenue is as Garner suggested, imagine
what it could become in the Open Source space.

Mark Townsend wrote:
> rkusenet wrote:
>
>> Open Informix will guarantee the death of one RDBMS
>> on LUW platform:- DB2.
>
>
> Agreed. IBM's only chance in the software business is to open source DB2
> for LUW (and their other products), and become the lead SI for a
> complete OS stack.
As always the selfishless in which you point out winning stratgies for
your competitors is warming my heart.

Cheers
Serge
--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab

I don't expect IBM to open source Informix in the near future, because
they are afraid losing revenue. They still earn some money with IDS
licences and additionally it would make it more difficult to sell DB2
licences. The obvious advantages (growing market share, selling more
services or selling more other IBM products) are more difficult to
calculate in dollars.
So I expect IBM to open source Informix in 5 or 10 years (when they
earned the billion dollars they paid for it to Ascential Software). Of
course then it's to late to grow any market share.

So I would open source the XPS source code now, because the lost
licence revenue would be marginal. IBM could still sell maintenance,
services and hardware, etc. for this product.
It would also generate attention to the IDS product again. The concerns
about the future of IDS would disappear, because customers would get
the impression, that the worst thing that could happen to IDS is, that
it goes open source, too.

rkusenet wrote:
> Open Informix will guarantee the death of one RDBMS
> on LUW platform:- DB2.

Agreed. IBM's only chance in the software business is to open source DB2
for LUW (and their other products), and become the lead SI for a
complete OS stack.