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DE - I am ready to discuss and debate anything as long as it's honest and
sincere. I do not see nor feel it is here. This is now "trolling".

> -----Original Message-----
> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-
> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 23:43
> To: informix-list@iiug.org
> Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,
> TheNextInformix IDS Release...
>
> Jean Georges Perrin wrote:
> > I guess most of this is due to pessimistic old fogeys that can't
> remember
> > that Informix has never been capable of marketing its superior database.
> >
>
> Uh, _what_ marketing if any is being done _TODAY_ ?
>
> > I never say IIUG is marketing the database (and it's actually not what
> we
> > do).
> >
>
> Interesting observation... just what _does_ the IIUG do? :-/ It appears
> as
> if IBM is depending too much on the illustrious and sanctimonious IIUG to
> do
> something with Informix. A company that is serious about its products
> will
> promote them.
>
> > There is no major announcement in any other database world as well. At
> least
> > we had a few, including very innovative solutions and a benchmark
> recently.
> >
>
> Uh, one press release is not much if anything. There is no buzz, nothing.
>
> > You may not see momentum around the product 'cause you're lost on an
> island,
> > I see quite a bit of it and sent facts about it recently.
> >
>
> I see absolutely nothing but for the dribble here in c.d.i. If I didn't
> follow this newsgroup I wouldn't know anything about Informix. And I'm
> not lost on an island, Informix is the one that is lost not me. I did the
> smart thing and transitioned my skills away from Informix, a lost cause,
> and am quite happy. But it is a tragedy to see Informix suffer endless
> incompetence in the marketing department. It really would be great to
> see it have a chance in the market, but I can't see that happening.
>
> > I am pretty sure the next version is far from being doomed!
> >
>
> Right. What's the application everyone is hot-to-trot to put on Informix?
> Please tell me. Why would a developer use Informix? What's the hook?
> Tell me what I can do with Informix that I can't do with something else.
> There's no value proposition that I know of for Informix, nothing.
>
> > (I would not think I'd do that, but...) OTC said it as well. Stop
> looking at
> > the half-empty glass, start thinking positively and life will look far
> > better.
> >
>
> Yes I do look at the glass half full. My billing rate doubled once I left
> the Informix family and went on to other disciplines in IT that not only
> pay better, they are not a whipping boy for database religious wars or
> fodder for Oracle. Nothing to defend anymore, nothing to promote, it
> really doesn't matter, nobody cares about Informix anyway, it's done.
> Great technology in the bone yard of good intentions and lost causes.
>
> -DE-
>
> > jgp
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-
> >> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Double Echo
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 19:29
> >> To: informix-list@iiug.org
> >> Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand 2006,
> >> TheNext Informix IDS Release...
> >>
> >> Several key things here JGP.
> >>
> >> Why is it up to the IIUG to market Informix? That is what you are
> >> implying.
> >>
> >> Why is there no major application announcement regarding the use of
> >> Informix?
> >>
> >> Why is there no momentum with this product?
> >>
> >> Why isn't IBM putting some money into events and the product marketing?
> >>
> >> It appears that this next release is doomed to another misfire in the
> >> market
> >> from incompetence at every turn.
> >>
> >> Jean Georges Perrin wrote:
> >>> Christine,
> >>>
> >>> Please stop saying lies or speaking about things you do not have a
> clue
> >>> about. You have never been on the Board, you have been invited quite a
> >> few
> >>> times, and you were not on the conference calls, nor in the exchange
> >> between
> >>> the Board members.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> On the subject of conferences, the bigger it is, the most expensive it
> >> is.
> >>> When you have a users group lunch, it is basically free, when the
> >>> WAIUG/SEIUG do a regional conference, price is about $100, but they
> have
> >> a
> >>> huge crowd of volunteers to help them, then when you organise things
> >> like
> >>> IOD or IDUG, you have more costs, because you can not rely only on
> >>> volunteers...
> >>>
> >>> jgp
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-
> >>>> bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of elanleblanc@yahoo.com
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 00:25
> >>>> To: informix-list@iiug.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: Insider #75: Highlights: IBM Information On Demand
> >> 2006,The
> >>>> Next Informix IDS Release...
> >>>>
> >>>> TBP wrote:
> >>>>> Can people pay for the number of "days" they attend?
> >>>>> Can people get "half days"?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Would you have got 4 times the number of people if the price was 500
> >>>>> Euros? Would it have been better to just get the people in at 500
> >> Euros?
> >>>>> Still, a bit late now huh
> >>>> It would appear that no one is listening. IBM looks to the IIUG
> Board
> >>>> of Directors for guidance on the needs and desires of the community.
> >>>> The community has been clear on the issue of conferences since day 1.
> >>>> Yet, I don't recall the IIUG BoD taking these issues to IBM. On the
> >>>> other hand, IBM is a major sponsor of the IIUG (the trips to various
> >>>> venues for the BoD to meet and a myriad of justifiable, necessary
> >>>> expenses IBM quite rightly also foots); yet the IIUG BoD provides
> >>>> little support for IBM in promoting it's conferences. Such as in
> this
> >>>> Insider where the BoD finally deigned to mention IBM's upcoming IOD
> >>>> conference in Anaheim. They managed to do so without even mentioning
> >>>> there would be Informix content and by referring to DB2 yet again.
> >>>> They also failed to mention that this conference was designed to
> >>>> eliminate many (not all) of the Informix communities issues with past
> >>>> conferences.
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps if the BoD would push the community agenda and needs with IBM
> >>>> instead of it's own and support IBM's initiatives to support Informix
> >>>> (not the idiotic ones, of course), perhaps IBM would find a way to
> >>>> sponsor the types of conferences that would work for the community at
> >>>> large.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the meantime, I hope to see many of you in Washington, D.C.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Informix-list mailing list
> >>>> Informix-list@iiug.org
> >>>> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Informix-list mailing list
> >> Informix-list@iiug.org
> >> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Informix-list mailing list
> Informix-list@iiug.org
> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list

My apologies JGP. I have somehow failed you in my communications.

I can honestly say I'm not trolling, whatever that means to the reader, or trying to waste your time or anyone else's.

I have observed over the years that c.d.i typically does not tolerate too much serious debate. Many times in response to some well thought out posts I see people go to all the trouble to reply, and then it's only some passing one-line of text that they took all of what, 30 seconds at the most, to reply, either with stupid, dismissive statements, or just ignorant anger. I've seen a lot of stupid posts, that have no brains behind the poster, so in context I think I'm far from being a troll, whatever that is to you.

In fact, historically, over the years I've tried to engage people in serious discussion, only to be dismissed, disrespected, or ignored. I know that posting here has its own rewards and hazards, but I think if people are serious about the topics and seriously read what some of us are saying, they understand the context, and they understand the history. It's no big deal to post useless banter, or play dismissive games with people, because cheap shots are easy, they don't take any brains, just sarcastic wit. But I think that if someone is serious, they won't try to make themselves look good at someone else's expense. Obviously if I've posted something stupid I am a target for flames, but until somebody explains to me why my simple questions about Informix marketing have no answers other than IBM shelving Informix, I will continue to ask and debate the tragedy and lost-opportunity that I see.

I have to go now, I'm sure I hit the c.d.i. post-limit for a topic, and will hear from the legions of angry readers who want to chat only about technical topics, and how I've infringed on their ability to keep this newsgroup sterile and status quo.

-DE-


Jean Georges Perrin wrote:
> DE - I am ready to discuss and debate anything as long as it's honest and
> sincere. I do not see nor feel it is here. This is now "trolling".
>

Double Echo said:
> Many times in response to some well thought out
> posts I see people go to all the trouble to reply, and then it's only some
> passing one-line of text that they took all of what, 30 seconds at the
> most, to reply, either with stupid, dismissive statements, or just
> ignorant anger.

What a load of utter cock.

--
Bye now,
Obnoxio

"... no bill is required as no value was provided."
-- Christine Normile

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