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I'm not sure that makes IDS unique....i've seen other vendors do this. Typically they all copy each other!

I thought IBM changed the way the s/w was licensed so that you didn't "buy"the product at all. Rather you pay maintenance...aka lease the s/w. I alsothought that under these terms if you stopped paying maintenance you should stop using the s/w. It's been a long time since i've had to bother about such details.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org
> [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org]On Behalf Of piotrek
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 6:13 AM
> To: informix-list@iiug.org
> Subject: Re: reliability?
>
>
>
> "piotrek" <piotrUSUN_T_O110@o2.pl> wrote in message
> news:fvufun$d14$1@pippin.nask.net.pl...
> > one more short question:
> > How to obtain fix?
> > Sure - I can find it on fixcentral but as far as I know our
> client has no
> > more active support...
> >
>
> In other words:
> is it true that we have to pay extra for any (even most
> critical) fix to
> IDS??
> If so - this makes Informix an unique rdbms (or any other) software
> vendor...
> Especially taking into account IDS buggynes....
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Informix-list mailing list
> Informix-list@iiug.org
> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
>




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> "Denham, Mark" <Mark.Denham@lfg.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1072.1210253144.20610.informix-list@iiug.org...
> I'm not sure that makes IDS unique....i've seen other vendors do this.
> Typically they all copy each other!

> I thought IBM changed the way the s/w was licensed so that you didn't
> "buy" the product at all. Rather you pay maintenance...aka lease the s/w.
> > I also thought that under these terms if you stopped paying maintenance
> you should stop using the s/w.
> It's been a long time since i've had to bother about such details.

Happy you! We are working also with Oracle and MSSQL. Both have many week
points but both give:
- easy access to developement versions of engine
- FREE and immediate and easy to find access to patches

I always liked informix and promoted it in client talks. But now I have no
more sentiment...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org
> [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org]On Behalf Of piotrek
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 6:13 AM
> To: informix-list@iiug.org
> Subject: Re: reliability?
>
>
>
> "piotrek" <piotrUSUN_T_O110@o2.pl> wrote in message
> news:fvufun$d14$1@pippin.nask.net.pl...
> > one more short question:
> > How to obtain fix?
> > Sure - I can find it on fixcentral but as far as I know our
> client has no
> > more active support...
> >
>
> In other words:
> is it true that we have to pay extra for any (even most
> critical) fix to
> IDS??
> If so - this makes Informix an unique rdbms (or any other) software
> vendor...
> Especially taking into account IDS buggynes....
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Informix-list mailing list
> Informix-list@iiug.org
> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
>




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From: "piotrek" <piotrUSUN_T_O110@o2.pl>

> - easy access to developement versions of engine
> - FREE and immediate and easy to find access to patches

link to IDS 11.1 Developer Edition (All features enabled, no time limit):

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/do...8&S_CMP=DLMAIN

I followed the link labeled "Download the IDS Developer Edition" on the IDS
11 main page here:

http://www-306.ibm.com/software/info/ids/index.jsp


I don't know what to say about the FREE and immediate and easy to find
access to patches. I'm not sure how the other guys do it but IDS doesn't do
"patches", just new releases with the bug fixes included. If you have
support it is not a problem to get these fixes from IBM's download site, but
if you don't have support, are you really entitled to the bug fixes?

Andrew

>
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/do...8&S_CMP=DLMAIN
>
> I followed the link labeled "Download the IDS Developer Edition" on the
> IDS 11 main page here:

Ok, I give up - but it's a quite new thing

> I don't know what to say about the FREE and immediate and easy to find
> access to patches. I'm not sure how the other guys do it but IDS doesn't
> do "patches", just new releases with the bug fixes included. If you have
> support it is not a problem to get these fixes from IBM's download site,
> but if you don't have support, are you really entitled to the bug fixes?
>

- If IDS does not have pathes (fixes) then what is this:
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview...id=swg24009130
- Such a bug in optimiser is like faulty stearing mechanism in a car - you
cannot trust an application build on something like this. Maybe 'other guys'
are also not faultless but what is a problem with fixing (whithout extra
charge) things which when not fixed makes a product unusable (what a kind of
agrement is that)?
In automotive industry they are even installing a path for you (product
recall)

----- Original Message -----
From: "piotrek" <piotrUSUN_T_O110@o2.pl>
Newsgroups: comp.databases.informix
To: <informix-list@iiug.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: reliability?


> >
>> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/do...8&S_CMP=DLMAIN
>>
>> I followed the link labeled "Download the IDS Developer Edition" on the
>> IDS 11 main page here:
>
> Ok, I give up - but it's a quite new thing
>
>> I don't know what to say about the FREE and immediate and easy to find
>> access to patches. I'm not sure how the other guys do it but IDS doesn't
>> do "patches", just new releases with the bug fixes included. If you have
>> support it is not a problem to get these fixes from IBM's download site,
>> but if you don't have support, are you really entitled to the bug fixes?
>>
>
> - If IDS does not have pathes (fixes) then what is this:
> http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview...id=swg24009130
> - Such a bug in optimiser is like faulty stearing mechanism in a car - you
> cannot trust an application build on something like this. Maybe 'other
> guys'
> are also not faultless but what is a problem with fixing (whithout extra
> charge) things which when not fixed makes a product unusable (what a kind
> of
> agrement is that)?
> In automotive industry they are even installing a path for you (product
> recall)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Informix-list mailing list
> Informix-list@iiug.org
> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list


Like Mark said IDS does not support a patch mechanism, the bugs and new
features are rolled into the next release. To take advantage of a bug fix
you must install a new version of IDS. It has always been this way, even
before the IBM aquisition.

As for as needing to be current with support to get these new releases, I
kind of agree that this is a weird area. If you bought something and it has
a defect, then shouldn't you be entitled to the fix for free? Maybe. But
on the other hand, if you're running a system important enough to care about
an optimizer bug, then shouldn't you have current vendor support for that
system?

Andrew

piotrek wrote:
>
>> "Denham, Mark" <Mark.Denham@lfg.com> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.1072.1210253144.20610.informix-list@iiug.org...
>> I'm not sure that makes IDS unique....i've seen other vendors do this.
>> Typically they all copy each other!
>
>> I thought IBM changed the way the s/w was licensed so that you didn't
>> "buy" the product at all. Rather you pay maintenance...aka lease the
>> s/w. > I also thought that under these terms if you stopped paying
>> maintenance you should stop using the s/w.
>> It's been a long time since i've had to bother about such details.
>
> Happy you! We are working also with Oracle and MSSQL. Both have many
> week points but both give:
> - easy access to developement versions of engine
> - FREE and immediate and easy to find access to patches
>
> I always liked informix and promoted it in client talks. But now I have
> no more sentiment...
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org
>> [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org]On Behalf Of piotrek
>> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 6:13 AM
>> To: informix-list@iiug.org
>> Subject: Re: reliability?
>>
>>
>>
>> "piotrek" <piotrUSUN_T_O110@o2.pl> wrote in message
>> news:fvufun$d14$1@pippin.nask.net.pl...
>> > one more short question:
>> > How to obtain fix?
>> > Sure - I can find it on fixcentral but as far as I know our
>> client has no
>> > more active support...
>> >
>>
>> In other words:
>> is it true that we have to pay extra for any (even most
>> critical) fix to
>> IDS??
>> If so - this makes Informix an unique rdbms (or any other) software
>> vendor...
>> Especially taking into account IDS buggynes....
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Informix-list mailing list
>> Informix-list@iiug.org
>> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
>>
>
>
>
>
> Notice of Confidentiality: **This E-mail and any of its attachments may
> contain
> Lincoln National Corporation proprietary information, which is
> privileged, confidential,
> or subject to copyright belonging to the Lincoln National Corporation
> family of
> companies. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual
> or entity to
> which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this
> E-mail, you are
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action
> taken in
> relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly
> prohibited
> and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please
> notify the
> sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of
> this E-mail
> and any printout. Thank You.**
>

AFAIK: You can download Oracle XE and use it for production, but you
don't get access to Metalink.
You can download development version of the Enterprise, but you cannot
use it for production or
even to access your customer's production database.
You can get Micro$oft SQL Server with one of the developer's programs,
but you have to
renew subscription every year or stop using software (and now pass some
sort of exam on the
web to continue using it - so I moved everything to Linux :-) )

All of the above are licensing restrictions, but not functional limitations.

Informix support gives you access to the new versions and emergency
support for production
environment.

HTH

Michael

"Denham, Mark" <Mark.Denham@lfg.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1072.1210253144.20610.informix-list@iiug.org...
I'm not sure that makes IDS unique....i've seen other vendors do this.
Typically they all copy each other!

>> I thought IBM changed the way the s/w was licensed so that you didn't
>> "buy" the product at all. Rather you pay maintenance...aka lease the s/w.
>> I also thought that under these terms if you stopped paying maintenance
>> you should stop using the s/w. It's been a long time since i've had to
>> bother about such details.

Absolutely not. You buy from IBM (or hopefully from an Informix-specialist
reseller!) a perpetual licence to use. This has bundled within it a
non-negotiable 12-months' maintenance, which entitles you to support and any
subsequent releases, bug fixes or patches.

Once that 12-month period expires you may optionally renew the maintenance
to retain the entitlement to support and to product updates. If you let
that lapse then need a new release you have to pay to have the maintenance
reinstated - this is charged at 3 times the maintenance cost. If the
reinstatement charge were not punitive, everyone would let manitenance lapse
and pay only when they had a problem.

>If you let that lapse then need a new release you have to pay to have the
>maintenance reinstated - this is charged at 3 times the maintenance cost.
>If the reinstatement charge were not punitive, everyone would let
>manitenance lapse and pay only when they had a problem.
>

Exactly this is the case. And the client wants help from us since we made
the appliction...

"piotrek" <piotrUSUN_T_O110@o2.pl> wrote in message
news:fvv9al$pft$1@pippin.nask.net.pl...
> >If you let that lapse then need a new release you have to pay to have the
> >maintenance reinstated - this is charged at 3 times the maintenance cost.
> >If the reinstatement charge were not punitive, everyone would let
> >manitenance lapse and pay only when they had a problem.
>>
>
> Exactly this is the case. And the client wants help from us since we made
> the appliction...

OK. So your an OEM reseller of Informix? You bundled Informix in with your
application and sold both to the client?