Does anyone have any circuit diagrams (board layout even) for the Sun
375-0005 (SE dual SCSI card) and the 375-0006 (HVD dual SCSI card)? Or
data sheet on the LSI 53C876 chip?

I need both HVD and SE SCSI controllers, but don't want to use two PCI
slots.

I am considering of perhaps getting two of these boards (I have a SE
one), swapping some chips, and so making a hybrid board, that has one SE
and one HVD channel on the same board.

Sound possible?

Without looking too closely, U3, U4 and U5 probably drives channel A and
U6, U7 and U8 probably drives channel B.

Or perhaps the PCBs are different. But I doubt that. Anyone with any
more detailed information ????

Anyone has a data sheet for the LSI 53C876 chip? I looked on the LSI web
site, but can't find it. But I suspect it can be found. I see a
reference to someone in a Sun forum looking at the data sheet. My guess
is the data sheet will show what external chips are needed to drive SE
and HVD.

--
Dave K

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually. The month is
always written in 3 letters (e.g. Jan, not January etc)

"Dave (from the UK)" <see-my-signature@southminster-branch-line.org.uk> wrote:
> Anyone has a data sheet for the LSI 53C876 chip? I looked on the LSI web
> site, but can't find it. But I suspect it can be found. I see a
> reference to someone in a Sun forum looking at the data sheet. My guess
> is the data sheet will show what external chips are needed to drive SE
> and HVD.

What about
http://www.lsilogic.com/files/docs/t...ollers/876.pdf
(from)
http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs...si53c876e.html

--
Daniel

Daniel Rock wrote:
> "Dave (from the UK)" <see-my-signature@southminster-branch-line.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>Anyone has a data sheet for the LSI 53C876 chip? I looked on the LSI web
>> site, but can't find it. But I suspect it can be found. I see a
>>reference to someone in a Sun forum looking at the data sheet. My guess
>>is the data sheet will show what external chips are needed to drive SE
>>and HVD.
>
>
> What about
> http://www.lsilogic.com/files/docs/t...ollers/876.pdf
> (from)
> http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs...si53c876e.html
>

Thanks. Obviously I have not read it carefully, but it says it has a
single ended (SE) interface. Searching with acroread for the word HVD in
that data sheet, I find it does not exist.

I am now wondering if the chip needs extra chips to drive HVD that it
does not need to drive SE? In other words, you need a SE -> HVD chip
somewhere. That might make conversion quite difficult, as quite a few
changes would probably be needed to the board. But if possible, one
would probably start with an HVD board and remove the driver on one
channel only.

I don't suppose anyone is aware of a SCSI board being made like this -
i.e. both HVD and SE on the same board? If someone else makes one, but
it uses that chip, there is no real reason it would not work in a Sun.
I'm not bothered about whether it will boot or not.

--
Dave K

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually. The month is
always written in 3 letters (e.g. Jan, not January etc)

"Dave (from the UK)" <see-my-signature@southminster-branch-line.org.uk> wrote:
> Does anyone have any circuit diagrams (board layout even) for the Sun
> 375-0005 (SE dual SCSI card) and the 375-0006 (HVD dual SCSI card)? Or
> data sheet on the LSI 53C876 chip?

What about Section 2.2.7.1 and Figure 2.5 (on page 2-27 (49))?

--
Daniel

Daniel Rock wrote:
> "Dave (from the UK)" <see-my-signature@southminster-branch-line.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>Does anyone have any circuit diagrams (board layout even) for the Sun
>>375-0005 (SE dual SCSI card) and the 375-0006 (HVD dual SCSI card)? Or
>>data sheet on the LSI 53C876 chip?
>
>
> What about Section 2.2.7.1 and Figure 2.5 (on page 2-27 (49))?
>

Thanks, as you say, that shows the wiring for differential - they don't
seem to refer to it as HVD, but I think that is what they mean.

Take a look at these two cards:

The SYM22810 (which looks identical to the Sun 375-0005 single ended board)
http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22801.html

and the SYM22802 (which I assume is the same as the Sun 375-0006 HVD
board, although I can't verify this - can anyone??)
http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22802.html

The board layouts are *very* different.

So whilst looking at the data sheet it would appear you can have the
chip drive one channel single-ended and the other channel differential,
actually hacking one of those Sun SCSI boards to do the same would be a
nightmare.

I was rather hoping that the changes would be minimal, so only requiring
changing a few chips over, but that does not look like it will be possible.

I know SCSI converters are made.

Ideally I'd like to get the SE tape drive on one of the two existing
Ultra Wide SE SCSI buses in the Ultra 80. It seems crazy the box has two
SE SCSI channels, but no way of getting the signals to an internal tape
drive. At least if this is possible, nobody has replied to my earlier
post telling me how to do it.

Yet I think a tape drive was an option for the Ultra 80 - perhaps it
needed a SCSI controller installed too. Does anyone know?

--
Dave K

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually. The month is
always written in 3 letters (e.g. Jan, not January etc)

>
> Take a look at these two cards:
>
> The SYM22810 (which looks identical to the Sun 375-0005 single ended
board)
> http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22801.html
>
> and the SYM22802 (which I assume is the same as the Sun 375-0006 HVD
> board, although I can't verify this - can anyone??)
> http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22802.html
>

Dave,

I have a 375-0006 and a 375-0005 sitting on my shelf. Is there anything
particular that you would like to know from them?

A quick look at the boards shows the same SYMBios chip part number ... with
the difference appearing to be the drive chips (transistors) interface to
the SCSI connections.

Let me know if there any anything you require and I will see what I can do
to help. Note that I will be away from email for a couple of days.

Cheers

* Me * wrote:
>>Take a look at these two cards:
>>
>>The SYM22810 (which looks identical to the Sun 375-0005 single ended
>
> board)
>
>>http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22801.html
>>
>>and the SYM22802 (which I assume is the same as the Sun 375-0006 HVD
>>board, although I can't verify this - can anyone??)
>>http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22802.html
>>
>
>
> Dave,
>
> I have a 375-0006 and a 375-0005 sitting on my shelf. Is there anything
> particular that you would like to know from them?
>
> A quick look at the boards shows the same SYMBios chip part number ... with
> the difference appearing to be the drive chips (transistors) interface to
> the SCSI connections.
>
> Let me know if there any anything you require and I will see what I can do
> to help. Note that I will be away from email for a couple of days.
>
> Cheers
>
>


I'm interested basically in how similar the boards look. If the layout
is very similar between the two boards, then it may be possible to lift
some chips off of the HVD board, lift some chips off of the SE board and
move them across.

It would need to be the chips that connect to the SCSI connectors. But
if the Sun boards are like

http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22801.html
http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22802.html

then it looks impractical. They are too dissimilar.

Perhaps tomorrow I'll shut my U80 down and look inside to see if it is
practical to connect a SE tape drive to one of the two SE controllers
that are already on the U80's motherboard.

A DDS-3 tape drive was available as an internal option, and the machine
has spare for a floppy as well as two internal 5.25" drives, so I assume
you can fit floppy+CD+tape. But I can't see how - at least from memory,
the connectors will not allow it.
--
Dave K

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually. The month is
always written in 3 letters (e.g. Jan, not January etc)

"Dave (from the UK)" <see-my-signature@southminster-branch-line.org.uk>
wrote in message news:43dda2e0@212.67.96.135...
>
> I'm interested basically in how similar the boards look. If the layout
> is very similar between the two boards, then it may be possible to lift
> some chips off of the HVD board, lift some chips off of the SE board and
> move them across.
>
> It would need to be the chips that connect to the SCSI connectors. But
> if the Sun boards are like
>
> http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22801.html
> http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22802.html
>
> then it looks impractical. They are too dissimilar.
>
> Perhaps tomorrow I'll shut my U80 down and look inside to see if it is
> practical to connect a SE tape drive to one of the two SE controllers
> that are already on the U80's motherboard.
>
> A DDS-3 tape drive was available as an internal option, and the machine
> has spare for a floppy as well as two internal 5.25" drives, so I assume
> you can fit floppy+CD+tape. But I can't see how - at least from memory,
> the connectors will not allow it.
> --
> Dave K

Dave,

Those pictures are pretty accurate to what I have on my shelf (spare parts
box sitting on my shelf).

The SYMBios chips are the same ... then the rest is quite a bit different -
as you correctly surmized.

I am surprised that you require HVD. That is the reason that the board in
my spare parts box - no real requirement for connecting anything SCSI that
is high voltage differential. (not to mention those connecting cables for
the external ports are quite expensive - the high density sockets).

Another option is to bring out one of the internal SE connectors to the back
of your case. Many PC computer stores (at least here) have stock of 68 pin
internal to 68 pin external (card slot bracket) connector. Would this be an
option for you? (I picked one up for $6.00 at a shop that recycles old
computers).

Cheers
Glenn

* Me * wrote:

>>http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22801.html
>>http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scs.../lsi22802.html

> Those pictures are pretty accurate to what I have on my shelf (spare parts
> box sitting on my shelf).

Cheers.

> The SYMBios chips are the same ... then the rest is quite a bit different -
> as you correctly surmized.

OK. That means a simple hack to get a dual card, that handles both SE
and HVD is not feasible.

> I am surprised that you require HVD. That is the reason that the board in
> my spare parts box - no real requirement for connecting anything SCSI that
> is high voltage differential. (not to mention those connecting cables for
> the external ports are quite expensive - the high density sockets).

I have a Sun StorEDGE L9 tape autoloader (takes about eight or nine
40/80 GB tapes). That needs HVD, so I have an HVD card. The card is
actually made by IBM, but has a 53C875 (single channel) chip. Works fine
and at the time I bought it (many years ago) is was a lot cheaper than a
Sun SCSI card. Now, they are all next to nothing.

I'm a bit reluctant to use the autoloader much, since if it goes wrong,
I don't have another DLT drive. But I guess a single DLT drive is not
that expensive. I don't need the autoloader.

With DDS-4, I have several options for retrieving the data. A friend has
a DDS-4 drive and my previous employer would not mind me using theirs to
get data off of a tape. With DLT I have less options.

> Another option is to bring out one of the internal SE connectors to the back
> of your case.

That is already done. But how to I connect the internal tape drive to
it? I'd like to use an *internal* DDS-4 tape drive. I do have an
external DDS-4 drive, but I'd rather make that portable and not tie it
to the Ultra 80 all the time.

I should be able to get a DDS-4 drive for about £40 (~ $70 when
converted to USD), so they are not that expensive.

I think the SCSI connection issues are not such a problem after all. If
this thread

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/com...4c eff3c244ee

is to be believed then the data transfer rate of a DDS4 drive is not
sufficient to overload an 8-bit narrow bus.

So perhaps putting a 50->68 pin adapter on the rear of the tape drive
will do. Then the cable that feeds the CD-ROM drive will feed the tape
too. I'm not sure if the cable has another 50-pin connector on it, but
if not one could easily be crimped on.

I just checked the installation manual (802-7791) for the DDS-3 tape
drive from Sun:

http://sunsolve.sun.com/data/802/802...f/001.dds3.pdf

That shows the DDS-3 using a 50-pin connector on the rear. But DDS-4
drives are faster than DDS-3, so I'm still not 100% convinced using only
a narrow bus is a good idea. It might be if its the only thing on the
bus, but if you are backing up from a disk on that bus too, I am not so
sure.

For many things slowing the bus down a bit results only in a loss of
performance, but on tape drives it causes them to constantly have to
stop & start, which I believe does not do them a lot of good and results
in a dramatic loss of speed.

--
Dave K

http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work
for a couple of months only. Later set it manually. The month is
always written in 3 letters (e.g. Jan, not January etc)