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Hi all,

I recently had a need to break out my Sun Archive QIC-150 tape drive
(Sun P/N 370-1218-04) to read some old archives, and had the misfortune
of discovering that the pinch roller has turned to a sticky black goo!
Anyone else ever had this problem? Ive been reading up on this
phenomenon and apparently its not so uncommon on older equipment. Is
there anyone out there who still has a working one or these? If so and
you own a pair over vernier calipers and know how to use them, could you
be so kind and measure the outside diameter of the rubber pinch roller?
I found a guy on line who rebuilds these rollers with a superior rubber
compound and would like to send him the original OD specs.
Thanks in advance!!
Kurt

p.s.: to reply directly please remove the fruit from my reply email address.

According to Kurt Nowak <knowak@peach.alumni.calpoly.edu>:
> Hi all,
>
> I recently had a need to break out my Sun Archive QIC-150 tape drive
> (Sun P/N 370-1218-04) to read some old archives, and had the misfortune
> of discovering that the pinch roller has turned to a sticky black goo!
> Anyone else ever had this problem? Ive been reading up on this
> phenomenon and apparently its not so uncommon on older equipment. Is
> there anyone out there who still has a working one or these? If so and
> you own a pair over vernier calipers and know how to use them, could you
> be so kind and measure the outside diameter of the rubber pinch roller?
> I found a guy on line who rebuilds these rollers with a superior rubber
> compound and would like to send him the original OD specs.
> Thanks in advance!!
> Kurt

O.K. You don't mention the preferred units, so I'll give both
sets likely to be useful:

0.046"
12.35mm

Of course, a truly precision measurement is difficult with it
mounted in the drive, as it is difficult to get the calipers in without
having an angle -- and the rubber roller compresses slightly too. But
these figures should be close enough. If real precision were needed, I
would have to disassemble it and to use a micrometer with good feel in
the measurement. But -- there is a button-head Allen screw on the back
of the swinging base to allow adjustment for proper pressure against the
roller in the cartridge, so I think that what I have given you should be
sufficient.

FWIW There is one of these drives on eBay -- auction #160167282627,
but it is opening at $99.99 (with 5 days 1 hour left) so it
all depends on how much the rebuild of the roller may cost.

> p.s.: to reply directly please remove the fruit from my reply email address.

I prefer to reply in the newsgroup where the question was asked,
so others can comment if I have made a mistake.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Thanks for your time Don! BTW, you are off by a factor of 10 Im sure
you meant .460". Someone else sent me another measurement, albeit much
more crude yours at .5". He used an adjustable wrench and then measured
its gap with a scale. Creative, but gives me a good ballpark. I'm a
mechanical engineer, so I can get a bit anal about measurement. Although
I think .500 +/- .040 should be acceptable In case anyone is
wondering, the guy I'm going to send this too is at:
http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/
Apparently he wants $35 to apply the rubber roller to my existing
pulley/roller. So far I haven't found a used one anywhere this cheap.
Plus, all the ones out there are going to be pretty old too, and
probably will suffer from the same symptom eventually. I think Id rather
have a custom one made that will last for some years.

Kurt


DoN. Nichols wrote:
> According to Kurt Nowak <knowak@peach.alumni.calpoly.edu>:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I recently had a need to break out my Sun Archive QIC-150 tape drive
>> (Sun P/N 370-1218-04) to read some old archives, and had the misfortune
>> of discovering that the pinch roller has turned to a sticky black goo!
>> Anyone else ever had this problem? Ive been reading up on this
>> phenomenon and apparently its not so uncommon on older equipment. Is
>> there anyone out there who still has a working one or these? If so and
>> you own a pair over vernier calipers and know how to use them, could you
>> be so kind and measure the outside diameter of the rubber pinch roller?
>> I found a guy on line who rebuilds these rollers with a superior rubber
>> compound and would like to send him the original OD specs.
>> Thanks in advance!!
>> Kurt
>
> O.K. You don't mention the preferred units, so I'll give both
> sets likely to be useful:
>
> 0.046"
> 12.35mm
>
> Of course, a truly precision measurement is difficult with it
> mounted in the drive, as it is difficult to get the calipers in without
> having an angle -- and the rubber roller compresses slightly too. But
> these figures should be close enough. If real precision were needed, I
> would have to disassemble it and to use a micrometer with good feel in
> the measurement. But -- there is a button-head Allen screw on the back
> of the swinging base to allow adjustment for proper pressure against the
> roller in the cartridge, so I think that what I have given you should be
> sufficient.
>
> FWIW There is one of these drives on eBay -- auction #160167282627,
> but it is opening at $99.99 (with 5 days 1 hour left) so it
> all depends on how much the rebuild of the roller may cost.
>
>> p.s.: to reply directly please remove the fruit from my reply email address.
>
> I prefer to reply in the newsgroup where the question was asked,
> so others can comment if I have made a mistake.
>
> Good Luck,
> DoN.
>

According to Kurt Nowak <knowak@peach.alumni.calpoly.edu>:
> Thanks for your time Don! BTW, you are off by a factor of 10 Im sure
> you meant .460".

Yes! Did I actually do that? IIRC, it was actually 0.486" not
0.460" -- but close enough, given that adjustment screw. I apparently
both added a leading zero, and dropped a digit later. :-) It is a good
thing that I also typed in the metric measurements, so I can recover the
original measurement.

> Someone else sent me another measurement, albeit much
> more crude yours at .5". He used an adjustable wrench and then measured
> its gap with a scale. Creative, but gives me a good ballpark.

Agreed.

> I'm a
> mechanical engineer, so I can get a bit anal about measurement.

I understand that. These days, I am a hobby machinist, so I can
be similar. FWIW, what I used was a digital caliper, and took advantage
of the mode switch to get the alternate reading -- with the head locked
before the switch.

> Although
> I think .500 +/- .040 should be acceptable In case anyone is
> wondering, the guy I'm going to send this too is at:
> http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/

That may prove useful someday. (I actually could have used him
with my first digital cassette recorder which I interfaced to my Altair
680b all those years ago. Both pinch rollers went gummy about the same
time -- and the only replacement from Ampex was gummy in its sealed
baggie. :-(

> Apparently he wants $35 to apply the rubber roller to my existing
> pulley/roller.

Not bad.

> So far I haven't found a used one anywhere this cheap.

You could at a hamfest -- but this is the wrong time of the year
for a hamfest. :-) (The next one which I know of is the Vienna
Winterfest in February -- after that, it is a wait until we get to hot
weather again.)

> Plus, all the ones out there are going to be pretty old too, and
> probably will suffer from the same symptom eventually. I think Id rather
> have a custom one made that will last for some years.

I have three or four of them -- all still with good rubber in
the pinch rollers.

Please let us know how the rebuild works out.

Best of luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2007-10-12, Kurt Nowak <knowak@peach.alumni.calpoly.edu> wrote:
> Thanks for your time Don! BTW, you are off by a factor of 10 Im sure
> you meant .460". Someone else sent me another measurement, albeit much
> more crude yours at .5". He used an adjustable wrench and then measured
> its gap with a scale. Creative, but gives me a good ballpark. I'm a
> mechanical engineer, so I can get a bit anal about measurement. Although
> I think .500 +/- .040 should be acceptable In case anyone is
> wondering, the guy I'm going to send this too is at:
> http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/
> Apparently he wants $35 to apply the rubber roller to my existing
> pulley/roller. So far I haven't found a used one anywhere this cheap.

Somewhat irritatingly, I gave a DC6150 drive away for nothing about a month ago.
You might want to post on the Bedford (UK) Freecycle group on the offchance that
the guy who has it doesn't want it (I "bundled" it up with a 4mm DAT that he did
want).

--
"Religion poisons everything."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

Thanks again Don! Funny thing. Today I realized that my Dads old Apollo
machines also used the Archive drives - however a 60MB version. I opened
one up, gently touched whereupon it smushed like a warm piece of gum. I
opened up the other one and luckily it was hard and intact! I measured
the roller at .487! - .001 off from your latest posting! I think I am
now satified. Anyway, I made some pictures of my situation for the guy
who will be making the new roller and posted them here:
http://www.sunzoo.org/Sun_QIC-150_Pi...nch-Roller.htm
Thanks for all your help!
Kurt


DoN. Nichols wrote:
> According to Kurt Nowak <knowak@peach.alumni.calpoly.edu>:
>> Thanks for your time Don! BTW, you are off by a factor of 10 Im sure
>> you meant .460".
>
> Yes! Did I actually do that? IIRC, it was actually 0.486" not
> 0.460" -- but close enough, given that adjustment screw. I apparently
> both added a leading zero, and dropped a digit later. :-) It is a good
> thing that I also typed in the metric measurements, so I can recover the
> original measurement.
>
>> Someone else sent me another measurement, albeit much
>> more crude yours at .5". He used an adjustable wrench and then measured
>> its gap with a scale. Creative, but gives me a good ballpark.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> I'm a
>> mechanical engineer, so I can get a bit anal about measurement.
>
> I understand that. These days, I am a hobby machinist, so I can
> be similar. FWIW, what I used was a digital caliper, and took advantage
> of the mode switch to get the alternate reading -- with the head locked
> before the switch.
>
>> Although
>> I think .500 +/- .040 should be acceptable In case anyone is
>> wondering, the guy I'm going to send this too is at:
>> http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/
>
> That may prove useful someday. (I actually could have used him
> with my first digital cassette recorder which I interfaced to my Altair
> 680b all those years ago. Both pinch rollers went gummy about the same
> time -- and the only replacement from Ampex was gummy in its sealed
> baggie. :-(
>
>> Apparently he wants $35 to apply the rubber roller to my existing
>> pulley/roller.
>
> Not bad.
>
>> So far I haven't found a used one anywhere this cheap.
>
> You could at a hamfest -- but this is the wrong time of the year
> for a hamfest. :-) (The next one which I know of is the Vienna
> Winterfest in February -- after that, it is a wait until we get to hot
> weather again.)
>
>> Plus, all the ones out there are going to be pretty old too, and
>> probably will suffer from the same symptom eventually. I think Id rather
>> have a custom one made that will last for some years.
>
> I have three or four of them -- all still with good rubber in
> the pinch rollers.
>
> Please let us know how the rebuild works out.
>
> Best of luck,
> DoN.

Amazing what these Archive drives go for on Ebay! I think that they are
starting to become somewhat of a rarity these days. Just a few years
back I would see tons of them at the electronics swap meets.

Huge wrote:
> On 2007-10-12, Kurt Nowak <knowak@peach.alumni.calpoly.edu> wrote:
>> Thanks for your time Don! BTW, you are off by a factor of 10 Im sure
>> you meant .460". Someone else sent me another measurement, albeit much
>> more crude yours at .5". He used an adjustable wrench and then measured
>> its gap with a scale. Creative, but gives me a good ballpark. I'm a
>> mechanical engineer, so I can get a bit anal about measurement. Although
>> I think .500 +/- .040 should be acceptable In case anyone is
>> wondering, the guy I'm going to send this too is at:
>> http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/
>> Apparently he wants $35 to apply the rubber roller to my existing
>> pulley/roller. So far I haven't found a used one anywhere this cheap.
>
> Somewhat irritatingly, I gave a DC6150 drive away for nothing about a month ago.
> You might want to post on the Bedford (UK) Freecycle group on the offchance that
> the guy who has it doesn't want it (I "bundled" it up with a 4mm DAT that he did
> want).
>

According to Kurt Nowak <knowak@peach.alumni.calpoly.edu>:
> Thanks again Don! Funny thing. Today I realized that my Dads old Apollo
> machines also used the Archive drives - however a 60MB version.

Yep -- that would match with the early Sun-3 machines, IIRC.

> I opened
> one up, gently touched whereupon it smushed like a warm piece of gum. I
> opened up the other one and luckily it was hard and intact!

Great!

> I measured
> the roller at .487! - .001 off from your latest posting!

That sounds close enough for a rubber pinch roller with a screw
for adjusting the pressure.

> I think I am
> now satified. Anyway, I made some pictures of my situation for the guy
> who will be making the new roller and posted them here:
> http://www.sunzoo.org/Sun_QIC-150_Pi...nch-Roller.htm

Great!

I presume that you will have new rollers made for at least two,
and perhaps all three, machines.

I wonder what exposure starts the transition to gum? Perhaps an
alcohol used to clean the rollers at sometime in the past?

> Thanks for all your help!

You're welcome.

Best of luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
> According to Kurt Nowak <knowak@peach.alumni.calpoly.edu>:
>> Thanks for your time Don! BTW, you are off by a factor of 10 Im sure
>> you meant .460".
>
> Yes! Did I actually do that? IIRC, it was actually 0.486" not
> 0.460" -- but close enough, given that adjustment screw. I apparently
> both added a leading zero, and dropped a digit later. :-) It is a good
> thing that I also typed in the metric measurements, so I can recover the
> original measurement.
>
>> Someone else sent me another measurement, albeit much
>> more crude yours at .5". He used an adjustable wrench and then measured
>> its gap with a scale. Creative, but gives me a good ballpark.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> I'm a
>> mechanical engineer, so I can get a bit anal about measurement.
>
> I understand that. These days, I am a hobby machinist, so I can
> be similar. FWIW, what I used was a digital caliper, and took advantage
> of the mode switch to get the alternate reading -- with the head locked
> before the switch.
>
>> Although
>> I think .500 +/- .040 should be acceptable In case anyone is
>> wondering, the guy I'm going to send this too is at:
>> http://www.terrysrubberrollers.com/
>
> That may prove useful someday. (I actually could have used him
> with my first digital cassette recorder which I interfaced to my Altair
> 680b all those years ago. Both pinch rollers went gummy about the same
> time -- and the only replacement from Ampex was gummy in its sealed
> baggie. :-(
>
>> Apparently he wants $35 to apply the rubber roller to my existing
>> pulley/roller.
>
> Not bad.
>
>> So far I haven't found a used one anywhere this cheap.
>
> You could at a hamfest -- but this is the wrong time of the year
> for a hamfest. :-) (The next one which I know of is the Vienna
> Winterfest in February -- after that, it is a wait until we get to hot
> weather again.)
>
>> Plus, all the ones out there are going to be pretty old too, and
>> probably will suffer from the same symptom eventually. I think Id rather
>> have a custom one made that will last for some years.
>
> I have three or four of them -- all still with good rubber in
> the pinch rollers.
>
> Please let us know how the rebuild works out.
>
> Best of luck,
> DoN.

I got the roller back today. He did a very nice job! My QIC-150 drive
works as good as new! I highly recommend paying the $40 for the peace of
mind that this drive will last for many more years and wont gobble up a
vintage SunOS tape.
/Kurt

According to Kurt Nowak <knowak@peach.alumni.calpoly.edu>:

[ ... ]


[ ... ]

> > Please let us know how the rebuild works out.

[ ... ]

> I got the roller back today. He did a very nice job! My QIC-150 drive
> works as good as new! I highly recommend paying the $40 for the peace of
> mind that this drive will last for many more years and wont gobble up a
> vintage SunOS tape.

Great!

BTW Do you know about the tprobe program? It is open source, and
it will make an image of an entire Sun install tape, and then
build new install tapes from that image. A good thing to make
images of all the install tapes you have, and keep them plus
the source and object code on a CD-ROM against future need.

after all -- even if the pinch roller is good, that does not
mean that the tape will remain readable. I've got quite a few
old install tapes which I can't fully read.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---