On 5 Nov 2006 00:40:20 GMT
dnichols@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) wrote:

> If the screw is a Torx (as I suspect), then you may not need
> to replace it -- just to get the right driver.

From personal experience, the U30, U60 and B2K all use Phillips screws.
That being said, like with Torx, Phillips heads also come in different
sizes, and it's quite easy to strip them with an inappropriate driver.

--
Stefaan A Eeckels
--
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is run by smart people who are
putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

On 2006-11-05, Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu> wrote:
> On 5 Nov 2006 00:40:20 GMT
> dnichols@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
>
>> If the screw is a Torx (as I suspect), then you may not need
>> to replace it -- just to get the right driver.
>
> From personal experience, the U30, U60 and B2K all use Phillips screws.
> That being said, like with Torx, Phillips heads also come in different
> sizes, and it's quite easy to strip them with an inappropriate driver.

Not forgetting that Philips != Pozidrive !!!!= Torx.

You can undo Torx with an Allen key, if you're careful.

--
"Other people are not your property."
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]

Congratulations on your screw removal. It's after the fact now, so for
the future benefit of everyone who has been following this thread:
another way to remove tight or boogered Philips Head / Posi-Driv
fasteners is with a hand-impact driver:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog


This tool takes a standard 3/8 drive screwdriver bit. When it is setup
in removal mode, striking the end of the tool drives the screwdriver bit
into the fastener head while at the same time imparting a
counter-clockwise torque (or clockwise if that's what you want). So long
as whatever the screw is fastening isn't too fragile, this tool will
work where almost nothing else will. Sometimes it doesn't take all that
much of a whack to make it work.

This tool is invaluable if you happen to own cars or electronic devices
made in Japan from the 60s to the 90s. Many of their Philips head
screws seemed to be made out of really soft steel, and the heads would
get scrambled rather quickly.

For the paranoid, you can also use this tool to get things extra tight.
Too tight, in fact.

Barry L. Bond wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> I have a single screw, within a black "plastic" configuration, that
> holds the metal left panel of my Sun Ultra 30 computer system.
>
> The screw went in too tight. And, in trying to remove it, I have
> really seriously "messed up" the phillips head of the screw. (Stripped
> didn't sound quite right to me, because, at least so far as I know, the
> threads along the length of the screw [within the system] are fine. It's
> the phillips head that is "stripped".)
>
> Last weekend, I put WD-40 on it. Tonight, I am not able to remove
> it.
>
> Two different screwdrivers just almost freely move in the (what was
> a) phillips hole, and there is not enough of the metal left in the
> phillips "hole shape" to grab the screw enough to turn it, and remove it.
> (I've tried needle-nose pliers, too, so far, it's not budging!)
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for me?
>
> I recently had it open to place a second SCSI hard drive in the Sun.
> And, the hard drive is in, and it's working just fine. So, at the moment,
> I don't *critically* need to go inside it. But, I know the day will come
> when I will want to again. I'd like to get this screw removed, and then,
> replace it with a new one, and be more careful, in the future, to not get
> it in so tight.
>
> Thank you very much for any suggestions!
>
> Barry

Congratulations on your screw removal. It's after the fact now, so for
the future benefit of everyone who has been following this thread:
another way to remove tight or boogered Philips Head / Posi-Driv
fasteners is with a hand-impact driver:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog


This tool takes a standard 3/8 drive screwdriver bit. When it is setup
in removal mode, striking the end of the tool drives the screwdriver bit
into the fastener head while at the same time imparting a
counter-clockwise torque (or clockwise if that's what you want). So long
as whatever the screw is fastening isn't too fragile, this tool will
work where almost nothing else will. Sometimes it doesn't take all that
much of a whack to make it work.

This tool is invaluable if you happen to own cars or electronic devices
made in Japan from the 60s to the 90s. Many of their Philips head
screws seemed to be made out of really soft steel, and the heads would
get scrambled rather quickly.

For the paranoid, you can also use this tool to get things extra tight.
Too tight, in fact.

Barry L. Bond wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> I have a single screw, within a black "plastic" configuration, that
> holds the metal left panel of my Sun Ultra 30 computer system.
>
> The screw went in too tight. And, in trying to remove it, I have
> really seriously "messed up" the phillips head of the screw. (Stripped
> didn't sound quite right to me, because, at least so far as I know, the
> threads along the length of the screw [within the system] are fine. It's
> the phillips head that is "stripped".)
>
> Last weekend, I put WD-40 on it. Tonight, I am not able to remove
> it.
>
> Two different screwdrivers just almost freely move in the (what was
> a) phillips hole, and there is not enough of the metal left in the
> phillips "hole shape" to grab the screw enough to turn it, and remove it.
> (I've tried needle-nose pliers, too, so far, it's not budging!)
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for me?
>
> I recently had it open to place a second SCSI hard drive in the Sun.
> And, the hard drive is in, and it's working just fine. So, at the moment,
> I don't *critically* need to go inside it. But, I know the day will come
> when I will want to again. I'd like to get this screw removed, and then,
> replace it with a new one, and be more careful, in the future, to not get
> it in so tight.
>
> Thank you very much for any suggestions!
>
> Barry

According to Stefaan A Eeckels <hoendech@ecc.lu>:
> On 5 Nov 2006 00:40:20 GMT
> dnichols@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
>
> > If the screw is a Torx (as I suspect), then you may not need
> > to replace it -- just to get the right driver.
>
> From personal experience, the U30, U60 and B2K all use Phillips screws.

Well ... perhaps. But *my* U-60 came with a Torx stripper bolt
instead of the normal Phillips screw in a tamper-proof housing (at least
when protected by the optional security cable).

Granted -- since I got my Ultra-60 from eBay, someone could have
swapped it -- but it is a good fit for the tab from the side panel.

> That being said, like with Torx, Phillips heads also come in different
> sizes, and it's quite easy to strip them with an inappropriate driver.

Agreed. And the *right* size Phillips usually *looks* too big.
It typically is at least as large in diameter as the head of the screw.

The proper test for the right size (in a screw which has not
been damaged) is to pick the one with the minimal free play in twisting
before it is stopped by the screw slots. Too big won't drop into the
slot at all, too small with rotate some ten degrees or so before firmly
engaging the screw.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Hi DoN!

> Are you *sure* that it is Phillips? The one on my Ultra-60 is a
>Torx instead. *Any* Phillips bit would slip in it. (I *think* that it
>is Torx T-15, but it may be one of the other similar sizes.) Anyway --
>get a set of Torx bits and check which one works properly in it.

<a lot, over three postings, snipped>

>> From personal experience, the U30, U60 and B2K all use Phillips screws.
>
> Well ... perhaps. But *my* U-60 came with a Torx stripper bolt
>instead of the normal Phillips screw in a tamper-proof housing (at least
>when protected by the optional security cable).
>
> Granted -- since I got my Ultra-60 from eBay, someone could have
>swapped it -- but it is a good fit for the tab from the side panel.

Well, I *thought* it was a Phillips screw, but you know, not even
knowing that something called "Torx" even existed, there is a slight
chance that maybe it wasn't...

(By now, it's been replaced, and the screw that I used to replace it WAS
a Phillips screw, and it's in, and good!) :-)

Both my computers sit beside my desk, the Linux on top of the Sun.
There is *just* enough room between the back of the systems/cabinets and
the wall to get a screwdriver. And, the Sun is on the bottom, sitting
directly on the floor.

While I was sitting on the floor, it's not like I had a lot of room
to get my head directly behind it, and look at it with all sides, though I
did look at it, with a flashlight shining brightly on it.

I thought it was. There is a chance it may not have been.

>> That being said, like with Torx, Phillips heads also come in different
>> sizes, and it's quite easy to strip them with an inappropriate driver.
>
> Agreed. And the *right* size Phillips usually *looks* too big.
>It typically is at least as large in diameter as the head of the screw.
>
> The proper test for the right size (in a screw which has not
>been damaged) is to pick the one with the minimal free play in twisting
>before it is stopped by the screw slots. Too big won't drop into the
>slot at all, too small with rotate some ten degrees or so before firmly
>engaging the screw.

I appreciate this! :-) I have three different Phillips "bits" for
the electric screwdriver that I normally use. The second size was the one
I used very nearly all of the time.

I will likely spend a bit more time, the next time I see (at least,
what I think is) a Phillips screw, I may spend at least a few seconds
trying to determine whether I'm using the right size Phillips "bit",
because I had kind of gotten to where I just grabbed the second size bit
as soon as I saw a Phillips!

Thank you! (Thank you, too, Stefaan!)

Barry
--
Barry L. Bond | http://home.cfl.rr.com/os9barry/
Software Engineer, ITT Corporation | (My personal home web page, last
bbondATcfl.rr.com | updated February 17, 2005)

Hi, Maxodyne!

>This tool takes a standard 3/8 drive screwdriver bit. When it is setup
>in removal mode, striking the end of the tool drives the screwdriver bit
>into the fastener head while at the same time imparting a
>counter-clockwise torque (or clockwise if that's what you want). So long
>as whatever the screw is fastening isn't too fragile, this tool will
>work where almost nothing else will. Sometimes it doesn't take all that
>much of a whack to make it work.

Wow! Striking the tool, with the bit inserted into the head, neat
idea! I appreciate your indicating such success with this tool! As soon
as I can spare a little beyond $50, I'll likely look into getting it!

Thank you!

Barry
--
Barry L. Bond | http://home.cfl.rr.com/os9barry/
Software Engineer, ITT Corporation | (My personal home web page, last
bbondATcfl.rr.com | updated February 17, 2005)

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 04:07:10 GMT
barry@barrycon.cfl.rr.com (Barry L. Bond) wrote:

> Thank you! (Thank you, too, Stefaan!)

You're welcome!

--
Stefaan A Eeckels
--
"There's nothing wrong with Java - well actually there is, but we won't
intrude on private grief here - except that it is pretty presumptuous
and demanding, and shows clear signs of fixation at the anal stage: it
doesn't just throw exceptions, it throws tantrums." --Steve Blinkhorn

According to Barry L. Bond <barry@barrycon.cfl.rr.com>:
>
> Hi DoN!
>
> > Are you *sure* that it is Phillips? The one on my Ultra-60 is a
> >Torx instead. *Any* Phillips bit would slip in it. (I *think* that it
> >is Torx T-15, but it may be one of the other similar sizes.) Anyway --
> >get a set of Torx bits and check which one works properly in it.
>
> <a lot, over three postings, snipped>
>
> >> From personal experience, the U30, U60 and B2K all use Phillips screws.
> >
> > Well ... perhaps. But *my* U-60 came with a Torx stripper bolt
> >instead of the normal Phillips screw in a tamper-proof housing (at least
> >when protected by the optional security cable).
> >
> > Granted -- since I got my Ultra-60 from eBay, someone could have
> >swapped it -- but it is a good fit for the tab from the side panel.
>
> Well, I *thought* it was a Phillips screw, but you know, not even
> knowing that something called "Torx" even existed, there is a slight
> chance that maybe it wasn't...

I had to go into the machine -- to swap drives in preparation
for a new install of Sol-10-U2, and I took another look at the screw.

I was wrong about it being a stripper screw (no cylindrical part
larger than the threaded part), but the head was larger than the usual
screw of that size. And it really had a combination head. A Torx T-15
socket with a slot cut through it so a small straight-blade driver would
work as well.

> (By now, it's been replaced, and the screw that I used to replace it WAS
> a Phillips screw, and it's in, and good!) :-)
>
> Both my computers sit beside my desk, the Linux on top of the Sun.
> There is *just* enough room between the back of the systems/cabinets and
> the wall to get a screwdriver. And, the Sun is on the bottom, sitting
> directly on the floor.
>
> While I was sitting on the floor, it's not like I had a lot of room
> to get my head directly behind it, and look at it with all sides, though I
> did look at it, with a flashlight shining brightly on it.

That is an awkward setup. When I first got the U-60, I put it
in my lap as I pulled it apart and swapped things. I kept putting the
screw aside with the broken-off tab still on it to keep from losing
that. This time around, I took the side panel and the tab down to the
shop, dipped the edge of the tab in some MEK* (Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone) and
touched it back against the panel until (third pass) it was soft enough
so it started to ooze a bit, and I then stopped. When it was time to
put the cover back on the machine, it was firmly a part of the side
panel again. :-)

And it *looks* as though there is a recess for the usual
anti-theft block to fit into -- but that is not with my machine. (It is
a good thing that the resale price of the Creator-3D cards has fallen so
much now. :-)

[ ... ]

> > The proper test for the right size (in a screw which has not
> >been damaged) is to pick the one with the minimal free play in twisting
> >before it is stopped by the screw slots. Too big won't drop into the
> >slot at all, too small with rotate some ten degrees or so before firmly
> >engaging the screw.
>
> I appreciate this! :-) I have three different Phillips "bits" for
> the electric screwdriver that I normally use. The second size was the one
> I used very nearly all of the time.

The wrong size (too small) will cam out and chew up the socket
in the screw's head. One too large won't go in far enough, and will
simply get its corners chewed off by the flats of the bit.

> I will likely spend a bit more time, the next time I see (at least,
> what I think is) a Phillips screw, I may spend at least a few seconds
> trying to determine whether I'm using the right size Phillips "bit",
> because I had kind of gotten to where I just grabbed the second size bit
> as soon as I saw a Phillips!

I understand the temptation -- but I have encountered too many
damaged screw heads to take the easy way. :-)

It would probably be a good idea to pick up a set of Torx bits
for that screwdriver too. I use mine in an electric screwdriver which
used to be sold under the AEG name, but now is sold under either
Panasonic (black case) or Milwaukee (red case) -- still the same
screwdriver.

* MEK Don't breathe this stuff very much. Either work with good
ventilation, or plan to leave the shop as soon as possible (and
without anyone else in there). This time, it was cold enough
so I opted for the second solution. :-)

> Thank you! (Thank you, too, Stefaan!)

You're welcome.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

You could probably find this tool at a lower price elsewhere. I
suggested the Snap-On version because they are uber-high quality -- and
why would you want to work on/around your Sun hardware with anything
less than the best?!?!

Before I got into programming things I was a Mercedes-Benz mechanic, and
most of my tools are Snap-On; the rest are Stahlwille, Hazet, or "Heinz 57".

Barry L. Bond wrote:
> Hi, Maxodyne!
>
>
>>This tool takes a standard 3/8 drive screwdriver bit. When it is setup
>>in removal mode, striking the end of the tool drives the screwdriver bit
>>into the fastener head while at the same time imparting a
>>counter-clockwise torque (or clockwise if that's what you want). So long
>>as whatever the screw is fastening isn't too fragile, this tool will
>>work where almost nothing else will. Sometimes it doesn't take all that
>>much of a whack to make it work.
>
>
> Wow! Striking the tool, with the bit inserted into the head, neat
> idea! I appreciate your indicating such success with this tool! As soon
> as I can spare a little beyond $50, I'll likely look into getting it!
>
> Thank you!
>
> Barry