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Hi,

I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
(| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?

-Kari-

"Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Q7hNe.10290$0I4.5814@reader1.news.jippii.net. ..
> Hi,
>
> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?
>

Here Reflection X (on W2K) with HPUX 10.20 on "the other side" works correctly.
The one thing which comes to mind, is to get 'xev' (maybe already present) and have a look at the key events a key with and without AltGr generates.
This gives a hint, if the keymapping is wrong, or if there is some more obscure problem.

HTH

Martin

In article <de4k23$41r$1@news.mch.sbs.de>, Martin Jost wrote:
>
> "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Q7hNe.10290$0I4.5814@reader1.news.jippii.net. ..
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
>> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
>> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?
>
> Here Reflection X (on W2K) with HPUX 10.20 on "the other side" works correctly.
> The one thing which comes to mind, is to get 'xev' (maybe already present) and have a look at the key events a key with and without AltGr generates.
> This gives a hint, if the keymapping is wrong, or if there is some more obscure problem.

I've been having a similar problem, with HP-UX 10.20, 11.00 and 11.11
all, and several different patch levels of each too, and a more varied
lineup of X server ends too (including several different versions of
Linux including several RedHat versions or derivatives and some others,
and some but not all *BSDs, but notably not the locally most common
kind of X server on Windows, nor any commercial UNIX that I could
test on.)

I didn't find a HP-UX binary for xev, so I built it from source ... and
it worked just fine, with all the AltGr characters too like ¤, but the
existing applications still didn't work. (No difference between
/usr/contrib/bin/X11/xterm and /usr/bin/X11/xterm in this regard.)
It was a reasonable suggestion though, too bad that it didn't help me
any.

I think it definitely is the "more obscure problem" here.

I think I did post here back when I was trying to make sense of it last
time. I still haven't made any progress. Anyone else?

Anyone who gets this problem on a keyboard layout other than the
Finnish/Swedish one that I use and mr. Keronen probably does too?


--
Mikko Nahkola <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com>
#include <disclaimer.h>
#Not speaking for my employer. No warranty. YMMV.

"Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> writes:

> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?

I have seen the same problem.

I have a sneaking suspicion this might be related to X11R6.x protocol
extension named "XKEYBOARD". It is supposed to allow us to use all
kinds of keyboards without ever using the "xmodmap" command. It even
seems to work, as long as the clients (or their X client libraries?)
support this extension.

However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support XKEYBOARD.
Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
"classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.

If ReflectionX's XKEYBOARD implementation is modeled after XOrg code,
the cause might be similar.

--
Matti.Kurkela@welho.com

In article <87fyt5x3z0.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
> "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> writes:
>
>> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
>> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
>> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?
>
> I have seen the same problem.
>
> I have a sneaking suspicion this might be related to X11R6.x protocol
> extension named "XKEYBOARD". It is supposed to allow us to use all
> kinds of keyboards without ever using the "xmodmap" command. It even
> seems to work, as long as the clients (or their X client libraries?)
> support this extension.

That does make sense, too bad that nothing on HP-UX seemed to know about
the extension last time I looked ... and on the X servers that use it,
disabling it doesn't work. Well, it _does_ get disabled, sure... but the
legacy keyboard code no longer worked either on the thing I tried it on.

> However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
> AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support XKEYBOARD.
> Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
> levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
> "classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
> with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.

Have to see if that'd help.

> If ReflectionX's XKEYBOARD implementation is modeled after XOrg code,
> the cause might be similar.



--
Mikko Nahkola <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com>
#include <disclaimer.h>
#Not speaking for my employer. No warranty. YMMV.

Mikko Nahkola <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com> writes:

> In article <87fyt5x3z0.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
>> "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> writes:

>>> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
>>> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
>>> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?

>> However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
>> AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support XKEYBOARD.

>> Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
>> levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
>> "classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
>> with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.
>
> Have to see if that'd help.

With a bit of googling I found this:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla....cgi?id=110933

In this thread, Thierry Lelegard explains how to construct a xmodmap
file to work around this problem.

I used his instructions to build a xmodmap file for XFree86 4.3 (or
above) with Finnish keyboard. It is just a quick hack: there are some
AltGr mappings that ought to have both upper-and lowercased versions,
but have only the lower case set up at the moment.

A quick test with xterm windows from HP-UX 11.00 and 11.11 displayed
on Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 was a success.

My xmodmap file is available at:
https://melchior.homelinux.net/xmodmap-compat-fi.txt

The ReflectionX might use a different set of keycodes, so my file may
not work for that.

--
Matti.Kurkela@welho.com

"Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Q7hNe.10290$0I4.5814@reader1.news.jippii.net. ..
> Hi,
>
> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?
>

Follow-up on my own post - just for the record (aka google):
[And yes, I have seen the other posts, and know that the problem might be / is fixed]
I just found (again) that Reflection X uses a keymap-file itself.
It can be found in the control panel under Options/Keyboard/Set default Keymap.
There is also a keymap editor.

Those might help too.

Martin

In article <87slx02z62.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
> Mikko Nahkola <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com> writes:
>
>> In article <87fyt5x3z0.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
>>> "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> writes:
>
>>>> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The problem is
>>>> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind AltGr key
>>>> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?
>
>>> However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
>>> AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support XKEYBOARD.
>
>>> Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
>>> levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
>>> "classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
>>> with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.
>
> With a bit of googling I found this:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla....cgi?id=110933
> In this thread, Thierry Lelegard explains how to construct a xmodmap
> file to work around this problem.
>
> I used his instructions to build a xmodmap file for XFree86 4.3 (or
> above) with Finnish keyboard. It is just a quick hack: there are some
> AltGr mappings that ought to have both upper-and lowercased versions,
> but have only the lower case set up at the moment.
>
> A quick test with xterm windows from HP-UX 11.00 and 11.11 displayed
> on Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 was a success.
>
> My xmodmap file is available at:
> https://melchior.homelinux.net/xmodmap-compat-fi.txt

Thanks, yes, it does seem to work - I've been otherwise busy elsewhere,
myself. (Reminder: Have to complain to HP about cpio, pax and
fbackup/frecover not being usable when /usr is hosed...)



--
Mikko Nahkola <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com>
#include <disclaimer.h>
#Not speaking for my employer. No warranty. YMMV.

$DRIFT ON

Mikko Nahkola <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com> wrote:
[deleted]
> (Reminder: Have to complain to HP about cpio, pax and
> fbackup/frecover not being usable when /usr is hosed...)

frecover is (also) available in /sbin [1] for exactly this issue.
Otherwise crash recovery (with Ignite-UX) would not work. Don't
know/remember if fbackup is also available in /sbin.

IIRC, cpio or/and tar is also available in a non-/usr directory,
probably also /sbin.

[1] Of course as a archived-library (non-shared-library) version,
otherwise /usr would still be needed.

$DRIFT OFF

"Matti Juhani Kurkela" <Matti.Kurkela@welho.com> kirjoitti viestissä
news:87slx02z62.fsf@ryoko.home...
> Mikko Nahkola <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com> writes:
>
> > In article <87fyt5x3z0.fsf@ryoko.home>, Matti Juhani Kurkela wrote:
> >> "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> writes:
>
> >>> I am using Reflection X (Windows XP) to connect HP-UX hosts. The
problem is
> >>> that when using dtterm I can't get any characters that are behind
AltGr key
> >>> (| $ @ etc.). Anyone knows if this is a bug ? Any workarounds ?
>
> >> However, at least XFree86/XOrg xservers seem to have problems with
> >> AltGr when they have to work with software that won't support
XKEYBOARD.
>
> >> Looks like the XKEYBOARD-aware xservers build only the first two
> >> levels of keyboard mappings (the unshifted and shifted keys) for the
> >> "classic" protocol. I think the AltGR mappings could be added back
> >> with the xmodmap tool, but I haven't had time to actually try it.
> >
> > Have to see if that'd help.
>
> With a bit of googling I found this:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla....cgi?id=110933
>
> In this thread, Thierry Lelegard explains how to construct a xmodmap
> file to work around this problem.
>
> I used his instructions to build a xmodmap file for XFree86 4.3 (or
> above) with Finnish keyboard. It is just a quick hack: there are some
> AltGr mappings that ought to have both upper-and lowercased versions,
> but have only the lower case set up at the moment.
>
> A quick test with xterm windows from HP-UX 11.00 and 11.11 displayed
> on Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 was a success.
>
> My xmodmap file is available at:
> https://melchior.homelinux.net/xmodmap-compat-fi.txt
>
> The ReflectionX might use a different set of keycodes, so my file may
> not work for that.

It did not work. So I desided to use Reflection X own keymapping as a
workaround. Not actually what I wanted to do.

-Kari-
>
> --
> Matti.Kurkela@welho.com