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These days, there are two kinds of Linux runners. Thanks to the
corporate-sponsored yuppy geeks at KDE/Gnome/freedesktop.org and
the distros that support those Windows-clone user-interfaces,

There are the true Linux runners, who want to learn Linux and to
share their knowledge with others and/or write-maintain the free,
open-source software that makes Linux possible.

And there are the false Linux runners who simply want a
free operating system and free technical support, who
don't care about learning Linux and don't have any intention
of doing their fair share of the work needed to maintain
Linux. Or of donating to the developers and maintainers of
the software they use.

They just want to watch videos and listen to music and shop
and play video games and engage in mindless chatter with IM
and IRC and on web forums, etc.

The false Linux runners are destroying Linux, which is precisely
why the corporations have put 10's of millions of dollars into
KDE and the like.

They know the couch potatos won't take the time to learn Linux
from the command line (note that I am not talking about Linux
without X, which I use) and they won't learn to type because
they need one hand free for their beer, cigarettes, junkfood,
cellphone, or whatever else they are consuming while they click
and point with the other hand.

The corporations really want that other hand free to consume...

And they really _don't_ want people to learn how to run computers.

Once most of the people running Linux are ignorant couch potatos who think
that KDE (etc.) and Linux are the same thing, the game is over. The
software will become non-free and non-open source.

They've already tried, remember:

http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=116445

But there wasn't a high enough percentage of couch potato, false
Linux runners around to allow them to pull it off.

If we don't do something about this situation, if we don't drop KDE (etc.)
like the radioactively hot potatoes they are, you can kiss Linux good-bye.

Or prepare to become, literally, outlaws.

No, KDE (etc.) are not nice ways to introduce people from the Mac/Windows
world to Linux. They are traps deliberately set and baited by huge corporations
who hate free and open source software and people who really understand computers.
And they especially hate computers they can't access at will. Which they cannot
on Linux OSes that don't run KDE (etc.).

Yes. I know that every blabbermouthed idiot on the Linux groups going to reply to
this. Sorry. But don't blame me. If it wasn't for KDE (etc.) none of these
lazy, thieving couch potatoes would be running Linux.

If I can ignore their malicious gibbering, so can you.

Tom


--
calhobbit (at)
gmail [DOT] com

On 2008-02-09, Handover Phist <jason@jason.websterscafe.com> wrote:
> Tom Newton :
>>
>> The false Linux runners are destroying Linux, which is precisely
>> why the corporations have put 10's of millions of dollars into
>> KDE and the like.
>
> Ah, the free market speaks!
>

I see that you don't want to address any of the issues that I raised.

I'm not surprised. Supporters of the KDE technocracy don't like having
their positions questioned.

There's nothing "free" about the market supported by the corporations.

And we do not have to reply when this non-free market speaks.

Thanks for taking your hand off your dick long enough to type your
juvenile response.

Tom

--
calhobbit (at)
gmail [DOT] com

On 2008-02-09, Richard James <rjames@invalid.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 07:25:03 +0000, Handover Phist wrote:
>
>> Tom Newton :
><useless rubbish snipped>
>> Ah, the free market speaks!
>
> I know it is the weekend but don't you have something better to do than
> read insane people's posts?

His idiotic response was made for the same reason that yours was:

He and you don't like having KDE questioned.

Do you realize how transparent your motives are? Apparently not.

All that eye-candy and junk food (in your mouse free hand) has
muddled your brains.

Tom


--
calhobbit (at)
gmail [DOT] com

Tom Newton :
> On 2008-02-09, Handover Phist <jason@jason.websterscafe.com> wrote:
>> Tom Newton :
>>>
>>> The false Linux runners are destroying Linux, which is precisely
>>> why the corporations have put 10's of millions of dollars into
>>> KDE and the like.
>>
>> Ah, the free market speaks!
>>
>
> I see that you don't want to address any of the issues that I raised.

Yup.

> I'm not surprised. Supporters of the KDE technocracy don't like having
> their positions questioned.

Really? I dont use KDE. Never have. What's your damage?

> There's nothing "free" about the market supported by the corporations.

Really? Makes me wonder how they raised the cash to be corporations.
Make money by filling a need maybe?

> And we do not have to reply when this non-free market speaks.

Great! Dont open your wallet. Many others have!

> Thanks for taking your hand off your dick long enough to type your
> juvenile response.

I can type with one hand, idiot. I get off on you looking like a tool

> Tom

Ah, the random sig generator knows...

Night night, that was fun. Back to work.

--
TOUCH ME I'M SICK

www.websterscafe.com

Tom Newton wrote:
> These days, there are two kinds of Linux runners. Thanks to the
> corporate-sponsored yuppy geeks at KDE/Gnome/freedesktop.org and
> the distros that support those Windows-clone user-interfaces,
>
> There are the true Linux runners, who want to learn Linux and to
> share their knowledge with others and/or write-maintain the free,
> open-source software that makes Linux possible.
>
> And there are the false Linux runners who simply want a
> free operating system and free technical support, who
> don't care about learning Linux and don't have any intention
> of doing their fair share of the work needed to maintain
> Linux. Or of donating to the developers and maintainers of
> the software they use.
>
> They just want to watch videos and listen to music and shop
> and play video games and engage in mindless chatter with IM
> and IRC and on web forums, etc.
>
> The false Linux runners are destroying Linux, which is precisely
> why the corporations have put 10's of millions of dollars into
> KDE and the like.
>
> They know the couch potatos won't take the time to learn Linux
> from the command line (note that I am not talking about Linux
> without X, which I use) and they won't learn to type because
> they need one hand free for their beer, cigarettes, junkfood,
> cellphone, or whatever else they are consuming while they click
> and point with the other hand.
>
> The corporations really want that other hand free to consume...
>
> And they really _don't_ want people to learn how to run computers.
>
> Once most of the people running Linux are ignorant couch potatos who think
> that KDE (etc.) and Linux are the same thing, the game is over. The
> software will become non-free and non-open source.
>
> They've already tried, remember:
>
> http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=116445
>
> But there wasn't a high enough percentage of couch potato, false
> Linux runners around to allow them to pull it off.
>
> If we don't do something about this situation, if we don't drop KDE (etc.)
> like the radioactively hot potatoes they are, you can kiss Linux good-bye.
>
> Or prepare to become, literally, outlaws.
>
> No, KDE (etc.) are not nice ways to introduce people from the Mac/Windows
> world to Linux. They are traps deliberately set and baited by huge corporations
> who hate free and open source software and people who really understand computers.
> And they especially hate computers they can't access at will. Which they cannot
> on Linux OSes that don't run KDE (etc.).
>
> Yes. I know that every blabbermouthed idiot on the Linux groups going to reply to
> this. Sorry. But don't blame me. If it wasn't for KDE (etc.) none of these
> lazy, thieving couch potatoes would be running Linux.
>
> If I can ignore their malicious gibbering, so can you.
>
> Tom
>
>
Once upon a time wheels were free. They still are actually. No-one can
stop you making your won wheel, or making anything out wheels.

However most people buy their cars complete.

They are not interested in building one. They want to pay someone else
to do it for them.

On 2008-02-09, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> wrote:
> Tom Newton wrote:
>> These days, there are two kinds of Linux runners. Thanks to the
>> corporate-sponsored yuppy geeks at KDE/Gnome/freedesktop.org and
>> the distros that support those Windows-clone user-interfaces,
>>
>> There are the true Linux runners, who want to learn Linux and to
>> share their knowledge with others and/or write-maintain the free,
>> open-source software that makes Linux possible.
>>
>> And there are the false Linux runners who simply want a
>> free operating system and free technical support, who
>> don't care about learning Linux and don't have any intention
>> of doing their fair share of the work needed to maintain
>> Linux. Or of donating to the developers and maintainers of
>> the software they use.
>>
>> They just want to watch videos and listen to music and shop
>> and play video games and engage in mindless chatter with IM
>> and IRC and on web forums, etc.
>>
>> The false Linux runners are destroying Linux, which is precisely
>> why the corporations have put 10's of millions of dollars into
>> KDE and the like.
>>
>> They know the couch potatos won't take the time to learn Linux
>> from the command line (note that I am not talking about Linux
>> without X, which I use) and they won't learn to type because
>> they need one hand free for their beer, cigarettes, junkfood,
>> cellphone, or whatever else they are consuming while they click
>> and point with the other hand.
>>
>> The corporations really want that other hand free to consume...
>>
>> And they really _don't_ want people to learn how to run computers.
>>
>> Once most of the people running Linux are ignorant couch potatos who think
>> that KDE (etc.) and Linux are the same thing, the game is over. The
>> software will become non-free and non-open source.
>>
>> They've already tried, remember:
>>
>> http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=116445
>>
>> But there wasn't a high enough percentage of couch potato, false
>> Linux runners around to allow them to pull it off.
>>
>> If we don't do something about this situation, if we don't drop KDE (etc.)
>> like the radioactively hot potatoes they are, you can kiss Linux good-bye.
>>
>> Or prepare to become, literally, outlaws.
>>
>> No, KDE (etc.) are not nice ways to introduce people from the Mac/Windows
>> world to Linux. They are traps deliberately set and baited by huge corporations
>> who hate free and open source software and people who really understand computers.
>> And they especially hate computers they can't access at will. Which they cannot
>> on Linux OSes that don't run KDE (etc.).
>>
>> Yes. I know that every blabbermouthed idiot on the Linux groups going to reply to
>> this. Sorry. But don't blame me. If it wasn't for KDE (etc.) none of these
>> lazy, thieving couch potatoes would be running Linux.
>>
>> If I can ignore their malicious gibbering, so can you.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
> Once upon a time wheels were free. They still are actually. No-one can
> stop you making your won wheel, or making anything out wheels.
>
> However most people buy their cars complete.
>
> They are not interested in building one. They want to pay someone else
> to do it for them.

I get your point, but it didn't hit the target: I am not talking about
building anything. That's been done.

I am talking about the difference between mastering KDE, or a similar
collection of applications and utilities (that's all it is) and
mastering Linux.

And about the motives of the people who are financing and writing
and supporting KDE.

I didn't build anything. I just installed Slackware 12.0 without
KDE. But with X and a window manager and all the X applications
I want.

I'm no guru or expert. It doesn't take a guru or an expert to
enter:

firefox &

on the commandline. It's no more intellectually challenging than
clicking on an icon.

And any moron can alias ff to 'firefox &', which I have done,
so all I need to do is to enter:

ff

I can do that as rapidly as one can click on an icon.

And I do the same thing with the other X and non-X apps
I use.

Big woo.

The amount system resources I save for better purposes by
not installing KDE is staggering. I also have a lot more
freedom in my choice of apps and utilities. As well as the
freedom to use any Linux/Unix computer effectively, regardless
of whether it has KDE or not. If it is there I can just ignore
it.

And I can run Linux OSes that don't even have X.

I am not a builder. To pick up on your automotive analogy,
one can use a GPS with voice instructions to get around,
or one can use maps.

If you use maps, you'll learn the area you are in.
If you use the GPS you never will,

The corporations that sell GPSes, of course, try to make
you believe you can't live without it. And if you start
relying on it, pretty soon you can't live without it.

Because you won't know the area are in.

KDE = GPS


Tom

--
calhobbit (at)
gmail [DOT] com

On 2008-02-09, Walter Mautner <nodeleaf.20.eatallspam@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
> Tom Newton wrote:
>
>> These days, there are two kinds of Linux runners. Thanks to the
>> corporate-sponsored yuppy geeks at KDE/Gnome/freedesktop.org and
>> the distros that support those Windows-clone user-interfaces,
>>
> I want to get a sample of what you were smoking when you wrote that article.
>
> Now, KDE is much more configurable (at least the 3.x series) and it allows
> selecting which services to run or rather not.

I do that, without KDE. It isn't difficult.

I have X and a window manager.

> Gnomes vfs automounting and popping up whatever you stick in, without
> further configurablity, can be a P.I.T.A.
> I prefer turning that off (but how with gnome???) and using good old autofs.
> And no, I cannot hear the word "registry" even if "gnome" prepended.
>

You use Gnome *and* KDE?! If you'd put all the time you have spent learning
those monstrosities into learning Linux, you'd be a lot further ahead!

Tom

--
calhobbit (at)
gmail [DOT] com

Tom Newton wrote, presumably in a lightning flash of self analysis:

> ...engage in mindless chatter with IM and IRC and on web forums,
> etc...

At last you're fulfilling your destiny, being an iconoclastic bigot,
with a paranoid delusion about GUI's on more than newsgroup at a time.

--
Two Ravens
"Tom Newton surely the William Topaz McGonagall of
alt.os.linux.slackware!"

Tom Newton wrote, presumably in a lightning flash of self analysis:

> ...engage in mindless chatter with IM and IRC and on web forums,
> etc...

At last you're fulfilling your destiny, being an iconoclastic bigot,
with a paranoid delusion about GUI's on more than one newsgroup at a
time.

--
Two Ravens
"Tom Newton surely the William Topaz McGonagall of
alt.os.linux.slackware, and apparently comp.os.linx.misc. and
comp.os.linux.setup as well!"

This is not a setup question you're raising. It's a troll, designed to insult and polarize Linux users, in particular to insult the rather large pool of casual users who need things to be simple to use.

If you'd like to understand the problem that your view of "only true hackers should be using Linux, because only true geeks can understand all the cool stuff we brilliant people did under it", go read Eric Raymond's essay on "The Luxury of Ignorance", and the lessons to be learned from the open source GUI for CUPS.

Eric's essay is very pertinent to folks actually setting up Linux, and writing tools for that purpose.