Hi All,

I am going to build a SAMBA File server on a Redhat 9 1GHz 256MB machine. I have three
identicle 18 GB SCSI Hard dirves, and a non-RAID SCSI controller.

I am trying to decide if I should use software RAID 5 on the SCSI drives or not.

I have some experience with hardware RAID 5. It seems like the RAID array needs to be
rebuilt about once or twice a year -- which concerns me a little. Do you think software
RAID will want to rebuild the array as often?

I'm just wondering if the risks of software RAID are higher than the risks of a SCSI
drive failure.

I was going to list my perceived PROS & CONS for SCSI/RAID-5 Vs. SCSI/individual
partitions. But wanted to get the communities take.

Does anyone have any experience with this decision?

Thanks,

Steve Wilder
unpack "u", qq(1\<W1E\=F5W0\'1E8VAR9RYC\;VT\`);

On 2005-01-14, Steve Wilder <digitaljunkie@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am going to build a SAMBA File server on a Redhat 9 1GHz 256MB machine. I have three
> identicle 18 GB SCSI Hard dirves, and a non-RAID SCSI controller.

You also have a problem with your newsreader. Set it to truncate your
lines around 75 chars please.

> I have some experience with hardware RAID 5. It seems like the RAID array needs to be
> rebuilt about once or twice a year

What brand was that? WeSuckEggsTroughtAStraw? The only time I had to
rebuild an hardware raid was when the little bastard caught fire!

>I'm just wondering if the risks of software RAID are higher than the risks of a SCSI
> drive failure.

Whatever you do: make backups.

Davide

--
Dogs crawl under fences... software crawls under Windows 95.

In comp.os.linux.setup Steve Wilder <digitaljunkie@yahoo.com>:

> Hi All,

> I am going to build a SAMBA File server on a Redhat 9 1GHz 256MB machine. I have three
> identicle 18 GB SCSI Hard dirves, and a non-RAID SCSI controller.

For the n-times this week, RH 9 is EOL, please get some recent
distro, with support/patches available.

> I am trying to decide if I should use software RAID 5 on the SCSI drives or not.

> I have some experience with hardware RAID 5. It seems like the RAID array needs to be
> rebuilt about once or twice a year -- which concerns me a little. Do you think software
> RAID will want to rebuild the array as often?

Strange, keep running quite a few systems, most with hw raid,
some with sw raid, there's never been any need to rebuild any
raid, unless a disk broke or I decided to quickly clone a system
out of a working raid. Which usually only works with sw raid.

Sorry, but I don't understand your question?

BTW
Please reduce your line length to a reasonable amount.

--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 390: Increased sunspot activity.

Davide Bianchi wrote:
>
> What brand was that? WeSuckEggsTroughtAStraw? The only time I had to
> rebuild an hardware raid was when the little bastard caught fire!

The hardware RAID controller I am currently using on a server
at work is a 3Ware 7500-8
(http://www.3ware.com/products/parallel_ata.asp)

Although, it is ATA 133, and not SCSI.

Monitor version: ME7X 1.01.00.035
Firmware version: FE7X 1.05.00.049
BIOS version: BE7X 1.08.00.046
PCB version: Rev3
Achip version: V3.20
Pchip version: V1.30
Model: 7500-8

Status: OK
Capacity: 1.22 TB (2389770240 blocks)
Write Cache: In Use
Configuration: Striped with Parity 64K (RAID 5)
Stripe size: 64K (65536 bytes)
Subunit count: 7

I guess what spooks me is seeing messages like this:

WARNING: Drive sector ECC error corrected on port 7...
WARNING: Drive sector ECC error corrected on port 0 on controller ID:0. (0x23)
INFORMATION: Rebuild is complete on unit 0 on controller ID:0. (0x5)
INFORMATION: Rebuild started on unit 0 on controller ID:0. (0xb)
ERROR: Disk Array Unit 0 on controller ID:0 is degraded...
ERROR: Drive error encountered on port 3 on controller ID:0....
WARNING: Drive sector ECC error corrected on port 3 on controller ID:0. (0x23)
INFORMATION: Rebuild is complete on unit 0 on controller ID:0. (0x5)

>
>
> Whatever you do: make backups.

Of course.

>
> Davide
>


--
Steve Wilder
unpack "u", qq(1\<W1E\=F5W0\'1E8VAR9RYC\;VT\`);

Michael Heiming wrote:

> In comp.os.linux.setup Steve Wilder <digitaljunkie@yahoo.com>:
>
>
> For the n-times this week, RH 9 is EOL, please get some recent
> distro, with support/patches available.

That is another good question. What would you recommend?

>
>
>> I am trying to decide if I should use software RAID 5 on the SCSI drives or not.
>
>
>> I have some experience with hardware RAID 5. It seems like the RAID array needs to be
>>rebuilt about once or twice a year -- which concerns me a little. Do you think software
>>RAID will want to rebuild the array as often?
>
>
> Strange, keep running quite a few systems, most with hw raid,
> some with sw raid, there's never been any need to rebuild any
> raid, unless a disk broke or I decided to quickly clone a system
> out of a working raid. Which usually only works with sw raid.
>
> Sorry, but I don't understand your question?
>
> BTW
> Please reduce your line length to a reasonable amount.
>


--
Steve Wilder
unpack "u", qq(1\<W1E\=F5W0\'1E8VAR9RYC\;VT\`);

Steve Wilder wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am going to build a SAMBA File server on a Redhat 9 1GHz 256MB
> machine. I have three identicle 18 GB SCSI Hard dirves, and a non-RAID
> SCSI controller.

Bad O/S version, I would recommend going to at least FC2 so you can get
fixes. If this is a funded project, invest $60/yr and subscribe to KRUD,
a distribution sold like a magazine, new set of CDs with latest fixes
and security software every month. Plus urgent fixes via network in real
time. www.tummy.com/krud (I have no connection other than 3 satisfied
years).
>
> I am trying to decide if I should use software RAID 5 on the SCSI
> drives or not.
>
> I have some experience with hardware RAID 5. It seems like the RAID
> array needs to be rebuilt about once or twice a year -- which concerns
> me a little. Do you think software RAID will want to rebuild the array
> as often?

Unless your drives STB or power fails you should not see a rebuild. I
haven't in three years.
>
> I'm just wondering if the risks of software RAID are higher than the
> risks of a SCSI drive failure.
>
> I was going to list my perceived PROS & CONS for SCSI/RAID-5 Vs.
> SCSI/individual partitions. But wanted to get the communities take.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this decision?

The only issue with software RAID is that if the boot drive (with MBR)
fails the BIOS may not fall back. Typically if you have a fail which
returns bad data for MBR, vs. "no data - hard fail" you may not fail over.

I have 38 machines running IBM ServeRAID for SCSI, and I like them a
lot. If your needs are not absolutely critical 7x24 software RAID will
be fine. You might want to add one more drive and go RAID-6 with a new
kernel.

Also, many controllers limit stripe size to "not enough" for big reads,
software RAID with larger stripes will provide better performance.

--
-bill davidsen (davidsen@tmr.com)
"The secret to procrastination is to put things off until the
last possible moment - but no longer" -me

In comp.os.linux.setup Steve Wilder <digitaljunkie@yahoo.com>:
> Michael Heiming wrote:
[..]

>> For the n-times this week, RH 9 is EOL, please get some recent
>> distro, with support/patches available.

> That is another good question. What would you recommend?

Something you feel comfortable with, fedora/rh enterprise or one
of the free clones, perhaps?

Try distrowatch.com.

--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zvpunry@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 57: Groundskeepers stole the root password

Bill Davidsen wrote:

> Steve Wilder wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am going to build a SAMBA File server on a Redhat 9 1GHz 256MB
>> machine. I have three identicle 18 GB SCSI Hard dirves, and a
>> non-RAID SCSI controller.
>
>
> Bad O/S version, I would recommend going to at least FC2 so you can get
> fixes. If this is a funded project, invest $60/yr and subscribe to KRUD,
> a distribution sold like a magazine, new set of CDs with latest fixes
> and security software every month. Plus urgent fixes via network in real
> time. www.tummy.com/krud (I have no connection other than 3 satisfied
> years).
>
>>
>> I am trying to decide if I should use software RAID 5 on the SCSI
>> drives or not.
>>
>> I have some experience with hardware RAID 5. It seems like the RAID
>> array needs to be rebuilt about once or twice a year -- which concerns
>> me a little. Do you think software RAID will want to rebuild the
>> array as often?
>
>
> Unless your drives STB or power fails you should not see a rebuild. I
> haven't in three years.
>
>>
>> I'm just wondering if the risks of software RAID are higher than the
>> risks of a SCSI drive failure.
>>
>> I was going to list my perceived PROS & CONS for SCSI/RAID-5 Vs.
>> SCSI/individual partitions. But wanted to get the communities take.
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience with this decision?
>
>
> The only issue with software RAID is that if the boot drive (with MBR)
> fails the BIOS may not fall back. Typically if you have a fail which
> returns bad data for MBR, vs. "no data - hard fail" you may not fail over.
>
> I have 38 machines running IBM ServeRAID for SCSI, and I like them a
> lot. If your needs are not absolutely critical 7x24 software RAID will
> be fine. You might want to add one more drive and go RAID-6 with a new
> kernel.
>
> Also, many controllers limit stripe size to "not enough" for big reads,
> software RAID with larger stripes will provide better performance.
>

Good advice. I am going to try fedora this weekend. I plan on using
a small IDE drive for the MBR, and OS.

Thanks!

--
Steve Wilder
unpack "u", qq(1\<W1E\=F5W0\'1E8VAR9RYC\;VT\`);

"Davide Bianchi" <davideyeahsure@onlyforfun.net> wrote in message
news:slrncufpqu.1sp.davideyeahsure@fogg.onlyforfun .net...
> On 2005-01-14, Steve Wilder <digitaljunkie@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I am going to build a SAMBA File server on a Redhat 9 1GHz 256MB machine.
>> I have three
>> identicle 18 GB SCSI Hard dirves, and a non-RAID SCSI controller.
>
> You also have a problem with your newsreader. Set it to truncate your
> lines around 75 chars please.
>
>> I have some experience with hardware RAID 5. It seems like the RAID
>> array needs to be
>> rebuilt about once or twice a year
>
> What brand was that? WeSuckEggsTroughtAStraw? The only time I had to
> rebuild an hardware raid was when the little bastard caught fire!

Promise controllers. I've had real problems with Promise controllers, their
hardware quality has historically been poor and their Linux support sucks.
3Ware costs a lot more but works extremely well.

>>I'm just wondering if the risks of software RAID are higher than the risks
>>of a SCSI
>> drive failure.
>
> Whatever you do: make backups.

And rethink if RAID is what you want. A cheap external IDE drive can easily
take a nightly complete snapshat of your file system, and be less vulnerable
to accidental user "rm -rf /" commands than a RAID set.

"Steve Wilder" <digitaljunkie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47b94$41e7ef4c$d88ce6f3$9657@msgid.meganewsse rvers.com...
> Michael Heiming wrote:
>
>> In comp.os.linux.setup Steve Wilder <digitaljunkie@yahoo.com>:
>>
>>
>> For the n-times this week, RH 9 is EOL, please get some recent
>> distro, with support/patches available.
>
> That is another good question. What would you recommend?

If you need really stable RedHat or similar commercial grade support but are
cheap, www.whiteboxlinux.org. If you want leading/bleeding edge, Fedora Core
3.