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Hi,

I have a really old computer that I would like to use a UPS with. It is
used for home automation and real time control. The way I have the guts
mounted and out-of-sight make it difficult to do hardware upgrades. The
software also has been so heavily tweaked and tailored over the years that
it would be counterproductive to start fresh. ("If it ain't broke, don't
fix it.") Security isn't a concern as this system has no connectivity,
physical or logical, with the outside world.

H/W: Guts mainly from old Compaq Deskpro 2000/5166
P1-200Mhz (non-MMX), 128MB, PSU < 200W (unsure of exact wattage)

S/W: Linux
Distro: Redhat9
Kernel: 2.4.20-6
FS: ext2fs

Anyone use a UPS with RH9? From what I have gathered, the APC "SmartUPS"
units should work using the powerd daemon. Any specific units work better
than others? I'd prefer one that uses the serial port to communicate rather
than USB, which may mean having to go to Ebay for an old unit.

Any "gotcha's" that may come into play. One that I see already is that the
m/b doesn't power completetly off at shutdown. It goes into some sort of
"ready" mode at (software) shutdown. Will the UPS be smart enough to kill
power at this point? When power is reapplied, it does automatically begin
POST'ing.

Instead of having a physical BIOS chip, these old Compaqs used a
properietary bullshit scheme where the "BIOS" resides on a special partition
on the HDD. Needless to say, I got rid of that nonsense years ago. Having
read the manual, there are no settings that would enable/disable complete
powerdown, anyway.

Thanks...

"Ercmz" <none@nowhere.cvb> wrote in message
news:46840855$0$20561$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have a really old computer that I would like to use a UPS with. It is
> used for home automation and real time control. The way I have the guts
> mounted and out-of-sight make it difficult to do hardware upgrades. The
> software also has been so heavily tweaked and tailored over the years that
> it would be counterproductive to start fresh. ("If it ain't broke, don't
> fix it.") Security isn't a concern as this system has no connectivity,
> physical or logical, with the outside world.
>
> H/W: Guts mainly from old Compaq Deskpro 2000/5166
> P1-200Mhz (non-MMX), 128MB, PSU < 200W (unsure of exact wattage)
>
> S/W: Linux
> Distro: Redhat9
> Kernel: 2.4.20-6
> FS: ext2fs
>
> Anyone use a UPS with RH9? From what I have gathered, the APC "SmartUPS"
> units should work using the powerd daemon. Any specific units work better
> than others? I'd prefer one that uses the serial port to communicate
> rather than USB, which may mean having to go to Ebay for an old unit.
>
> Any "gotcha's" that may come into play. One that I see already is that
> the m/b doesn't power completetly off at shutdown. It goes into some
> sort of "ready" mode at (software) shutdown. Will the UPS be smart enough
> to kill power at this point? When power is reapplied, it does
> automatically begin POST'ing.
>
> Instead of having a physical BIOS chip, these old Compaqs used a
> properietary bullshit scheme where the "BIOS" resides on a special
> partition on the HDD. Needless to say, I got rid of that nonsense years
> ago. Having read the manual, there are no settings that would
> enable/disable complete powerdown, anyway.
>
> Thanks...


Leaning towards:

APC Back-UPS ES UPS, 350VA, 200watts
(Cheap and to the point)

Using apcupsd
http://www.apcupsd.org/

Which says works with RH(9)
http://www.apcupsd.org/manual/Buildi...ed-Hat-Systems

....just have to jibjab a USB controller into the mix

The m/b not completetly powering down at software shutdowns still worries me
though.

Ercmz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a really old computer that I would like to use a UPS with. It is
> used for home automation and real time control. The way I have the guts
> mounted and out-of-sight make it difficult to do hardware upgrades. The
> software also has been so heavily tweaked and tailored over the years that
> it would be counterproductive to start fresh. ("If it ain't broke, don't
> fix it.") Security isn't a concern as this system has no connectivity,
> physical or logical, with the outside world.
>
> H/W: Guts mainly from old Compaq Deskpro 2000/5166
> P1-200Mhz (non-MMX), 128MB, PSU < 200W (unsure of exact wattage)
>
> S/W: Linux
> Distro: Redhat9
> Kernel: 2.4.20-6
> FS: ext2fs

Normally, I would suggest upgrading to a more modern version of Linux, but
in this case, since you are not connected to the Internet, if it works
reliably enough for you I would suggest keeping it.
>
> Anyone use a UPS with RH9?

I used to, but that machine is running CentOS4 at the moment.

> From what I have gathered, the APC "SmartUPS"
> units should work using the powerd daemon. Any specific units work better
> than others? I'd prefer one that uses the serial port to communicate rather
> than USB, which may mean having to go to Ebay for an old unit.

I like APC UPSs, especially the SmartUPS series.

I think I used the genpowerd daemon long long ago. I know I had to make a
special serial cable for it, whatever it was. When PowerChutePlus came out,
I took it because it has a nice fancy window display.

I use PowerChutePlus-4.5.3-2_RedHat.i386.rpm with it. This program is no
longer supported by APC, but still works. At the moment, I have a SmartUPS
2200 that has a serial interface, a SmartUPS 1000 that also has a serial
interface, and a SmartUPS 620 that also has a serial interface. Some of them
also have USB interface -- The 620 does not seem to have USB, the 1000 does,
and the 2200 does not seem to. So be sure it says they have a serial
interface before buying. I would be afraid to buy a used one. Call APC to be
sure.
>
> Any "gotcha's" that may come into play. One that I see already is that the
> m/b doesn't power completetly off at shutdown.

No, but you can be sure they shut off when you pull the plug. ;-)

> It goes into some sort of
> "ready" mode at (software) shutdown. Will the UPS be smart enough to kill
> power at this point? When power is reapplied, it does automatically begin
> POST'ing.

When running PowerChutePlus, the UPS signals the computer about once every 2
seconds saying all is well. When power fails, it tells it that too.
Depending on the configuration, it will do a controlled shutdown either
after a specified time, or when the battery is too weak. Once the computer
is shut down, it powers the computer off as though you had pulled the plug,
but by then all file systems are unmounted and the CPU is executing a HALT
instruction.

When the power comes back on, i.e., when it is plugged in, it does whatever
the BIOS tells it to do. If your machine is old enough, the BIOS is not
involved and it just powers up. If it is pretty new, the BIOS can cause it
to stay off until you push the start button, return to whatever state it
used to be in, or start up.
>
> Instead of having a physical BIOS chip, these old Compaqs used a
> properietary bullshit scheme where the "BIOS" resides on a special partition
> on the HDD. Needless to say, I got rid of that nonsense years ago. Having
> read the manual, there are no settings that would enable/disable complete
> powerdown, anyway.
>
> Thanks...
>
>
P.S.: If your power is like mine, and you are using the computer to control
anything critical, you may want a large UPS. My power often goes off for
over an hour. Now I do not know if you have a UPS on all the sensors for
your computer (e.g., temperature sensors) and all the actuators (water
pumps, circulators, ...), but you should think about that.

Now my machines do nothing so critical, so they run a while and then shut
down if the power is off too long.


--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 15:40:01 up 7 days, 23:15, 4 users, load average: 4.20, 4.23, 4.19

Ercmz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a really old computer that I would like to use a UPS with. It is
> used for home automation and real time control. The way I have the guts
> mounted and out-of-sight make it difficult to do hardware upgrades. The
> software also has been so heavily tweaked and tailored over the years that
> it would be counterproductive to start fresh. ("If it ain't broke, don't
> fix it.") Security isn't a concern as this system has no connectivity,
> physical or logical, with the outside world.
>
> H/W: Guts mainly from old Compaq Deskpro 2000/5166
> P1-200Mhz (non-MMX), 128MB, PSU < 200W (unsure of exact wattage)
>
> S/W: Linux
> Distro: Redhat9
> Kernel: 2.4.20-6
> FS: ext2fs
>
> Anyone use a UPS with RH9? From what I have gathered, the APC "SmartUPS"
> units should work using the powerd daemon. Any specific units work better
> than others? I'd prefer one that uses the serial port to communicate rather
> than USB, which may mean having to go to Ebay for an old unit.

Good luck. Old UPS is just asking for troubles (UPS wise). You've got
several strikes working against you ... ancient machine, ancient Linux,
etc.

>
> Any "gotcha's" that may come into play. One that I see already is that the
> m/b doesn't power completetly off at shutdown. It goes into some sort of
> "ready" mode at (software) shutdown. Will the UPS be smart enough to kill
> power at this point?

No

> When power is reapplied, it does automatically begin
> POST'ing.
>
> Instead of having a physical BIOS chip, these old Compaqs used a
> properietary bullshit scheme where the "BIOS" resides on a special partition
> on the HDD. Needless to say, I got rid of that nonsense years ago. Having
> read the manual, there are no settings that would enable/disable complete
> powerdown, anyway.
>
> Thanks...

At some point you have to weigh the costs of supporting outdated
equipment and OS's and the limitations and frustrations that come
from that. For a few hundred bucks, you could eliminate the issues.
The question is: Is it worth $200-300 to you?

I see no value in trying to do something sophisticated with hardware
and software that is restricted from doing anything very sophisticated.

It sounds neat to tell people that you have a 486 running Linux... but
a LOT of stuff just wasn't possible back then irrespective of OS. Times
have changed. Personally, I could live without the headache....

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.setup.]

On 2007-06-28, Ercmz <none@nowhere.cvb> wrote:
>
> Any "gotcha's" that may come into play. One that I see already is that the
> m/b doesn't power completetly off at shutdown. It goes into some sort of
> "ready" mode at (software) shutdown. Will the UPS be smart enough to kill
> power at this point? When power is reapplied, it does automatically begin
> POST'ing.

You need to configure your shutdown procedure, either via inittab or a
shutdown script, to tell the UPS to kill the power. If you're willing,
I'd suggest installing NUT, from http://www.networkupstools.org . It
has excellent documentation for configuring and testing your UPS setup.
You may need an older version for RH9, but it should still work fine.

--keith

--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

Ercmz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a really old computer that I would like to use a UPS with. It is
> used for home automation and real time control. The way I have the guts
> mounted and out-of-sight make it difficult to do hardware upgrades. The
> software also has been so heavily tweaked and tailored over the years that
> it would be counterproductive to start fresh. ("If it ain't broke, don't
> fix it.") Security isn't a concern as this system has no connectivity,
> physical or logical, with the outside world.
.... snip

This might help you in picking a ups: http://geekbiker.net/upsinfo
Though I have not updated that page in a while.

BTW, my personal favorite brand is MGE, but they are a bit more
expensive and harder to find.

--
Ogre

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. I've read all of them and they were all helpful.

Since posting the last time, I picked up a [APC Back-UPS ES UPS, 350VA,
200watts] and also threw a USB controller into the witch brew.

Using the RH9 RPM for apcupsd, it was a straight-forward drop in and is
working....

Actually, I was pleasantly surprised how simple it was to get up and
running. I'll probably tweak out some of the timing variables to my own
preferences, but for all purposes it works well "right out of the box"
(apcusbd).

I'm happy with it. I'll check out NUT and the other sources listed in this
thread though. Left for another day is a few things that I'd like to tweak
on the UPS EPROM firmware itself such as turning the annoying alarm beeps
off, changing the "grace period" from time UPS gets a "power off" command to
actually turning off, etc. The apctest program doesn't seem to recognize any
of these settings even though does pick up battery date, manuf date, etc.
No big deal. The HDD has a real small W98 partition and I think I saw a
Windoze program to get at all this stuff...

UPS newbie here and just happy it was so painless... Hard to believe gone
so many years without any of these animals. I'll definetly be getting some
big ones for my main computers soon. :-)

Thanks!

"Ercmz" <none@nowhere.cvb> wrote in message
news:46844b41$0$8058$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the replies. I've read all of them and they were all helpful.
>
> Since posting the last time, I picked up a [APC Back-UPS ES UPS, 350VA,
> 200watts] and also threw a USB controller into the witch brew.
>
> Using the RH9 RPM for apcupsd, it was a straight-forward drop in and is
> working....
>
> Actually, I was pleasantly surprised how simple it was to get up and
> running. I'll probably tweak out some of the timing variables to my own
> preferences, but for all purposes it works well "right out of the box"
> (apcusbd).
>
> I'm happy with it. I'll check out NUT and the other sources listed in
> this thread though. Left for another day is a few things that I'd like to
> tweak on the UPS EPROM firmware itself such as turning the annoying alarm
> beeps off, changing the "grace period" from time UPS gets a "power off"
> command to actually turning off, etc. The apctest program doesn't seem to
> recognize any of these settings even though does pick up battery date,
> manuf date, etc. No big deal. The HDD has a real small W98 partition and
> I think I saw a Windoze program to get at all this stuff...
>
> UPS newbie here and just happy it was so painless... Hard to believe gone
> so many years without any of these animals. I'll definetly be getting
> some big ones for my main computers soon. :-)
>
> Thanks!

Got the firmware tweaked out to personal preferences now. No more annoying
beeping.

I'm still amazed at how smooth that went. I was expecting blood to be
drawn. Status messages sent to mail spool are even working. Cool.

I monitor/control this "system" (more of a "system" than a "computer") via
http, so definetly will play with the apcusbd cgi stuff. Spitting out UPS
stats on a web page could be cool. Hairy configuration is done over SSH.
(Networking is just point-to-point.)

Its headless, which meant dragging out a monitor everytime there was a power
failure to do a fsck. (ex2fs)

This "system" is so tweaked and tailored out (years worth) that it made more
sense to continue to work with it than to upgrade hardware, do cartwheeling
to convert the FS to ext3fs/reiserfs, etc...

Thanks!

Ercmz wrote:

>
> Its headless, which meant dragging out a monitor everytime there was a
> power failure to do a fsck. (ex2fs)
>
> This "system" is so tweaked and tailored out (years worth) that it made
> more sense to continue to work with it than to upgrade hardware, do
> cartwheeling to convert the FS to ext3fs/reiserfs, etc...
>
RHL9 supports ext3 file systems; all you need do is run tune2fs and tell it
to upgrade (on a partition by partition basis, so you need not change all at
once).

Something like the following if it is hda7 that you want to change. You can
probably change the root file system as well, without umounting it, but you
probably have to reboot to get it to take effect.

umount /dev/hda7
tune2fs -j /dev/hda7
[change /etc/fstab from ext2 to ext3 for /dev/hda7]
mount /dev/hda7

See the man pages to be sure.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 06:30:01 up 8 days, 14:05, 3 users, load average: 4.39, 4.26, 4.11

Ogre wrote:
> Ercmz wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a really old computer that I would like to use a UPS with. It
>> is used for home automation and real time control. The way I have the
>> guts mounted and out-of-sight make it difficult to do hardware
>> upgrades. The software also has been so heavily tweaked and tailored
>> over the years that it would be counterproductive to start fresh.
>> ("If it ain't broke, don't fix it.") Security isn't a concern as this
>> system has no connectivity, physical or logical, with the outside world.
> ... snip
>
> This might help you in picking a ups: http://geekbiker.net/upsinfo
> Though I have not updated that page in a while.
>
> BTW, my personal favorite brand is MGE, but they are a bit more
> expensive and harder to find.
>

The power supply on my server blew out last night so this web page is
not currently available. I hope to have it back up this evening.

--
Ogre