SB1K, one 750 proc, 1gb RAM, Expert3D (ie not lite).

I find it not much faster than the U60 dual 360 I had before, bit
disappointed actually. Another proc might ramp it up but as it's
basically a desktop for me I don't think it will help that much.

But the gfx are the real heartbreaker, the Expert is no better than the
Elite or the Creator I had before, PCI vs UPA admittedly but still. All
I want is snappier window movements not into games or 3D stuff.

So I bid on an XVR-500 on Ebay but decided against it in the end,
thinking this card isn't not much better than the Expert3D, any
opinions?

Am I better looking at the XVR-1000? The 600's and 1200's are out of my
range! Or again, am I looking at a marginal improvement?

Also is there any real reason not to try the Expert3D in the bottom
66meg slot? I know Sun say not to but is it just a support/untested
issue rather than a technical one? If I did would it offer any
improvement?

Running Solaris 10/JDS3, patched up as allowed by Sun nowadays.
Additionally I'm wondering if installing Medialibs would help as Sun
Docs suggest. I have OpenGL installed and the demos perform quite
admirably but as I say, not into that, just a smooth desktop is all I
want!

Steve

On 2006-02-22 15:12:17 +0000, Steve <stek1961NO@SPAMmac.com> said:

> SB1K, one 750 proc, 1gb RAM, Expert3D (ie not lite).
>
> I find it not much faster than the U60 dual 360 I had before, bit
> disappointed actually. Another proc might ramp it up but as it's
> basically a desktop for me I don't think it will help that much.
>
> But the gfx are the real heartbreaker, the Expert is no better than the
> Elite or the Creator I had before, PCI vs UPA admittedly but still. All
> I want is snappier window movements not into games or 3D stuff.
>
> So I bid on an XVR-500 on Ebay but decided against it in the end,
> thinking this card isn't not much better than the Expert3D, any
> opinions?
>
> Am I better looking at the XVR-1000? The 600's and 1200's are out of my
> range! Or again, am I looking at a marginal improvement?
>
> Also is there any real reason not to try the Expert3D in the bottom
> 66meg slot? I know Sun say not to but is it just a support/untested
> issue rather than a technical one? If I did would it offer any
> improvement?
>
> Running Solaris 10/JDS3, patched up as allowed by Sun nowadays.
> Additionally I'm wondering if installing Medialibs would help as Sun
> Docs suggest. I have OpenGL installed and the demos perform quite
> admirably but as I say, not into that, just a smooth desktop is all I
> want!
>
> Steve

I just fired up my old Octane (dual 195's) and it's great, much more
responsive.....

Dilemma!

Steve

HI,

Steve wrote:
> On 2006-02-22 15:12:17 +0000, Steve <stek1961NO@SPAMmac.com> said:
>
>> SB1K, one 750 proc, 1gb RAM, Expert3D (ie not lite).
>>
>> I find it not much faster than the U60 dual 360 I had before, bit
>> disappointed actually. Another proc might ramp it up but as it's
>> basically a desktop for me I don't think it will help that much.
>>
>> But the gfx are the real heartbreaker, the Expert is no better than
>> the Elite or the Creator I had before, PCI vs UPA admittedly but
>> still. All I want is snappier window movements not into games or 3D
>> stuff.
>>
>> So I bid on an XVR-500 on Ebay but decided against it in the end,
>> thinking this card isn't not much better than the Expert3D, any opinions?
>>
I can't compare really, I have one in a Blade 2500 works fine but still
I have nothing to compare with.

But i would suspect that XVR500 and XVR600 is no huge difference, I
think I asked about it here before I replaced the XVR100 with the XVR500.

Better resolution on XVR600!

>> Am I better looking at the XVR-1000? The 600's and 1200's are out of
>> my range! Or again, am I looking at a marginal improvement?
>>
Probably, maybe a second or faster CPU would do more to the Gnome stuff
in JDS3.

>> Also is there any real reason not to try the Expert3D in the bottom
>> 66meg slot? I know Sun say not to but is it just a support/untested
>> issue rather than a technical one? If I did would it offer any
>> improvement?
>>
>> Running Solaris 10/JDS3, patched up as allowed by Sun nowadays.
>> Additionally I'm wondering if installing Medialibs would help as Sun
>> Docs suggest. I have OpenGL installed and the demos perform quite
>> admirably but as I say, not into that, just a smooth desktop is all I
>> want!
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> I just fired up my old Octane (dual 195's) and it's great, much more
> responsive.....
>
> Dilemma!
>
W'll it's IRIX SGI Mips, it should not be slow in computation and
graphics

Dilemma is that SGI is in bad shape (:

What if you use CDE, Octane still ahead what graphics is it in it?


/michael

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:01:48 +0000
Steve <stek1961NO@SPAMmac.com> wrote:

> On 2006-02-22 15:12:17 +0000, Steve <stek1961NO@SPAMmac.com> said:
>
> > SB1K, one 750 proc, 1gb RAM, Expert3D (ie not lite).
> >
> > I find it not much faster than the U60 dual 360 I had before, bit
> > disappointed actually. Another proc might ramp it up but as it's
> > basically a desktop for me I don't think it will help that much.
> >
> > But the gfx are the real heartbreaker, the Expert is no better than
> > the Elite or the Creator I had before, PCI vs UPA admittedly but
> > still. All I want is snappier window movements not into games or 3D
> > stuff.

I'm rather pleased with the Elite3D which I salvaged from my Ultra 60
(also 2x360MHz) and put in my SB2K. There's some slight jerkiness when
dragging windows around, but then I only need that very occasionally.
Scroll speed in virtual terminals is a lot slower now that all fonts are
anti-aliased, but it's quite acceptable. I ran Sun's Gnome 2.0 for a
while, and that was lightning fast compared to the U60.

> > So I bid on an XVR-500 on Ebay but decided against it in the end,
> > thinking this card isn't not much better than the Expert3D, any
> > opinions?
> >
> > Am I better looking at the XVR-1000? The 600's and 1200's are out
> > of my range! Or again, am I looking at a marginal improvement?
> >

IMHO the XVR-1000 will be a lot faster than the XVR-500. In addition it
uses an UPA slot which can only be good for throughput.

> > Also is there any real reason not to try the Expert3D in the bottom
> > 66meg slot? I know Sun say not to but is it just a support/untested
> > issue rather than a technical one? If I did would it offer any
> > improvement?

I don't know - it wouldn't hurt to try as it's unlikely the card or
machine would be fried.

> > Running Solaris 10/JDS3, patched up as allowed by Sun nowadays.
> > Additionally I'm wondering if installing Medialibs would help as
> > Sun Docs suggest. I have OpenGL installed and the demos perform
> > quite admirably but as I say, not into that, just a smooth desktop
> > is all I want!

MediaLibs make a significant difference in my case. I suggest you try
it.

> I just fired up my old Octane (dual 195's) and it's great, much more
> responsive.....
>
> Dilemma!

The sgi (I have the same one) isn't running Gnome. If you'd try and
get Gnome 2.6 (the foundation of JDS) to run on a 195MHz Octane, you
would cry buckets.

CDE on my old Utra 60 with a Creator3D is very fast compared to Sun's
old Gnome 2.0 (pre-JDS) and Gnome 2.0 is a lot "snappier" than JDS
(the anti-aliasing that is done in JDS is a real display speed killer).

On my 2x900MHz SB2K with the Elite3Dm3, the graphics speed is quite
acceptable (in the same league as an Athlon 2000+ with a low-range
Nvidia frame buffer). I've been ogling an XVR-1000, but mainly to get
higher resolution than the Elite's 1280x1024.

Take care,

--
Stefaan
--
As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning,
and meaningful statements lose precision. -- Lotfi Zadeh

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:02:33 +0100, Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:01:48 +0000
> Steve <stek1961NO@SPAMmac.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2006-02-22 15:12:17 +0000, Steve <stek1961NO@SPAMmac.com> said:
>>
>> > SB1K, one 750 proc, 1gb RAM, Expert3D (ie not lite).
>> >
>> > I find it not much faster than the U60 dual 360 I had before, bit
>> > disappointed actually. Another proc might ramp it up but as it's
>> > basically a desktop for me I don't think it will help that much.
>> >
>> > But the gfx are the real heartbreaker, the Expert is no better than
>> > the Elite or the Creator I had before, PCI vs UPA admittedly but
>> > still. All I want is snappier window movements not into games or 3D
>> > stuff.
>
> I'm rather pleased with the Elite3D which I salvaged from my Ultra 60
> (also 2x360MHz) and put in my SB2K. There's some slight jerkiness when
> dragging windows around, but then I only need that very occasionally.
> Scroll speed in virtual terminals is a lot slower now that all fonts are
> anti-aliased, but it's quite acceptable. I ran Sun's Gnome 2.0 for a
> while, and that was lightning fast compared to the U60.
>
>> > So I bid on an XVR-500 on Ebay but decided against it in the end,
>> > thinking this card isn't not much better than the Expert3D, any
>> > opinions?
>> >
>> > Am I better looking at the XVR-1000? The 600's and 1200's are out
>> > of my range! Or again, am I looking at a marginal improvement?
>> >
>
> IMHO the XVR-1000 will be a lot faster than the XVR-500. In addition it
> uses an UPA slot which can only be good for throughput.
>
>> > Also is there any real reason not to try the Expert3D in the bottom
>> > 66meg slot? I know Sun say not to but is it just a support/untested
>> > issue rather than a technical one? If I did would it offer any
>> > improvement?
>
> I don't know - it wouldn't hurt to try as it's unlikely the card or
> machine would be fried.
>
>> > Running Solaris 10/JDS3, patched up as allowed by Sun nowadays.
>> > Additionally I'm wondering if installing Medialibs would help as
>> > Sun Docs suggest. I have OpenGL installed and the demos perform
>> > quite admirably but as I say, not into that, just a smooth desktop
>> > is all I want!
>
> MediaLibs make a significant difference in my case. I suggest you try
> it.
>

Done that! Also I've tried CDE and WindowMaker, much better. I knew Gnome
was a hog but I'd forgotten how much, I used to play with 1.4 and 2.0 on
Solaris but this is my first play with JDS on Sparc apart from Sunray
installs.

In the end I've stayed with JDS, but changed the theme around a bit and
now it feels much better, still not cheap PC gfx better but not bad.


>> I just fired up my old Octane (dual 195's) and it's great, much more
>> responsive.....
>>
>> Dilemma!
>
> The sgi (I have the same one) isn't running Gnome. If you'd try and
> get Gnome 2.6 (the foundation of JDS) to run on a 195MHz Octane, you
> would cry buckets.
>
> CDE on my old Utra 60 with a Creator3D is very fast compared to Sun's
> old Gnome 2.0 (pre-JDS) and Gnome 2.0 is a lot "snappier" than JDS
> (the anti-aliasing that is done in JDS is a real display speed killer).
>
> On my 2x900MHz SB2K with the Elite3Dm3, the graphics speed is quite
> acceptable (in the same league as an Athlon 2000+ with a low-range
> Nvidia frame buffer). I've been ogling an XVR-1000, but mainly to get
> higher resolution than the Elite's 1280x1024.
>

I'm on a Sun 18.1" LCD so better res no good to me! The XVR-1000's I've
seen on ebay seem to go around 200 dollars, I'm tempted but really unless
it's going to mean a two or three fold improvement I'll stick with what
I've got!

Thanks for the input!

Steve

In article <pan.2006.02.24.11.34.04.720904@SPAMmac.com>, Ste Kearney <stek1961NO@SPAMmac.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:02:33 +0100, Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:01:48 +0000
>> Steve <stek1961NO@SPAMmac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2006-02-22 15:12:17 +0000, Steve <stek1961NO@SPAMmac.com> said:
>>>
>>> > SB1K, one 750 proc, 1gb RAM, Expert3D (ie not lite).
>>> >
>>> > I find it not much faster than the U60 dual 360 I had before, bit
>>> > disappointed actually. Another proc might ramp it up but as it's
>>> > basically a desktop for me I don't think it will help that much.
>>> >
>>> > But the gfx are the real heartbreaker, the Expert is no better than
>>> > the Elite or the Creator I had before, PCI vs UPA admittedly but
>>> > still. All I want is snappier window movements not into games or 3D
>>> > stuff.
>>
>> I'm rather pleased with the Elite3D which I salvaged from my Ultra 60
>> (also 2x360MHz) and put in my SB2K. There's some slight jerkiness when
>> dragging windows around, but then I only need that very occasionally.
>> Scroll speed in virtual terminals is a lot slower now that all fonts are
>> anti-aliased, but it's quite acceptable. I ran Sun's Gnome 2.0 for a
>> while, and that was lightning fast compared to the U60.
>>
>>> > So I bid on an XVR-500 on Ebay but decided against it in the end,
>>> > thinking this card isn't not much better than the Expert3D, any
>>> > opinions?
>>> >
>>> > Am I better looking at the XVR-1000? The 600's and 1200's are out
>>> > of my range! Or again, am I looking at a marginal improvement?
>>> >
>>
>> IMHO the XVR-1000 will be a lot faster than the XVR-500. In addition it
>> uses an UPA slot which can only be good for throughput.
>>
>>> > Also is there any real reason not to try the Expert3D in the bottom
>>> > 66meg slot? I know Sun say not to but is it just a support/untested
>>> > issue rather than a technical one? If I did would it offer any
>>> > improvement?
>>
>> I don't know - it wouldn't hurt to try as it's unlikely the card or
>> machine would be fried.
>>
>>> > Running Solaris 10/JDS3, patched up as allowed by Sun nowadays.
>>> > Additionally I'm wondering if installing Medialibs would help as
>>> > Sun Docs suggest. I have OpenGL installed and the demos perform
>>> > quite admirably but as I say, not into that, just a smooth desktop
>>> > is all I want!
>>
>> MediaLibs make a significant difference in my case. I suggest you try
>> it.
>>
>
>Done that! Also I've tried CDE and WindowMaker, much better. I knew Gnome
>was a hog but I'd forgotten how much, I used to play with 1.4 and 2.0 on
>Solaris but this is my first play with JDS on Sparc apart from Sunray
>installs.
>
>In the end I've stayed with JDS, but changed the theme around a bit and
>now it feels much better, still not cheap PC gfx better but not bad.
>
>
>>> I just fired up my old Octane (dual 195's) and it's great, much more
>>> responsive.....
>>>
>>> Dilemma!
>>
>> The sgi (I have the same one) isn't running Gnome. If you'd try and
>> get Gnome 2.6 (the foundation of JDS) to run on a 195MHz Octane, you
>> would cry buckets.
>>
>> CDE on my old Utra 60 with a Creator3D is very fast compared to Sun's
>> old Gnome 2.0 (pre-JDS) and Gnome 2.0 is a lot "snappier" than JDS
>> (the anti-aliasing that is done in JDS is a real display speed killer).
>>
>> On my 2x900MHz SB2K with the Elite3Dm3, the graphics speed is quite
>> acceptable (in the same league as an Athlon 2000+ with a low-range
>> Nvidia frame buffer). I've been ogling an XVR-1000, but mainly to get
>> higher resolution than the Elite's 1280x1024.
>>
>
>I'm on a Sun 18.1" LCD so better res no good to me! The XVR-1000's I've
>seen on ebay seem to go around 200 dollars, I'm tempted but really unless
>it's going to mean a two or three fold improvement I'll stick with what
>I've got!

Might actually be worse at what you want, since that card
is tuned more for 3D perfomance. All this means in 2D
(especially for window moves, that you mentioned),
is that there are more bitplanes for X to drag around
(double buffered 30-bit, WID, double buffered overlay).

XVR-1000 buys you hardware dual screen, hi-hes,
DVI outputs, and multisampled 3D. All which don't
seem to be your focus.

In general, if you want 2D performance, I suggest switching
into 8-bit mode. But Gnome might not like that much.

Have you tried the Creator (FFB2 or FFB2+) cards in the
UPA slot. That would give you more raw bandwith to
the card for a small cost (free, if you still have the one
that you mentioned).





>Thanks for the input!
>
>Steve
>